Darth Hater

Star Wars: The Old Republic News, Interviews, Media & Podcast

Darth Hater Episode 78 - Revenge of the Swim

Episode 78 "Revenge of the Swim" of the Darth Hater Podcast is now live. Check the bottom of the post for the stream and download links. Podcast notes after the jump.


Download
Intro
Justin Lowe - Sado - @zirak
Pete Trerice - Misenus - @petetrerice
Joshua Ogborn - Sleeper - @dhsleeper
Ben - Dover - @doverbs
Official Darth Hater Twitter

Special Guest
Justin Olivetti (Syp) from BioBreak/Massively

Pre-show
Update on Jobs
Addressing the last Cast

Segments
Talking TOR with Syp

Darth Hater at BioWare Austin

Friday Update: Fan Friday, Studio Insider, and E3 Event Listing

Buffed.de Reveals New Warzone: The Voidstar

DevTracker Highlights For The Week of April 14, 2011

Facebook Image of the Week 4.13.11

Community Poll
Are you in favor of the way BioWare is designing the classes?
Yes (1083 Votes, 93%)
No (Please Explain) (91 Votes, 8%)

Are you disappointed that swimming will not be in at launch?
Yes (366 Votes, 31%)
No (838 Votes, 70%)

Do you like the idea of the Datacron feature?
Yes (1038 Votes, 91%)
No (111 Votes, 10%)

Do you like the reward type for Datacron collection?
Yes (961 Votes, 85%)
No (Please Explain) (173 Votes, 16%)

Community Questions/Comments

Salsa30: I was wondering if you noticed any class or racial-based special abilities during your hands-on time.

Caliber: I despise water quests. As long as there are not deep bodies of water dotting the landscape, forcing me to circumvent them, I will not be terribly forlorn about the inability of our characters to swim.

Chronium: I did not vote for the first question because frankly it's all theory crafting at the moment. Until the release of the game and I get my hands on it I do not really know how well BioWare are designing the classes.

Remlish: Exploration rewards should be unique intangible nonsense in my opinion. Place a Datacron in a remote and complete pain in the rear location, and reward me with a cape that has a big happy Ewok face on it or some strange bizarre vanity pet.

Voicemail

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Comments

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  • SithPippin's avatar
    • Posts: 0
    #30 SithPippin Posted 4/25/2011 4:59:09 PM
    SWG didn't have a trinity. As a Jedi, I was top damage since I always had aggro that made me tank and I was the main person healing. I liked doing that. This was all before NGE. Even in the NGE to a certain extent, the trinity is very soft. There are tank and healer specs but you can get by with out a tank spec.
  • Darthscotty's avatar
    • Posts: 0
    #28 Darthscotty Posted 4/21/2011 7:33:02 PM
    Great podcast as usual. On some of your recent discussions I do not think you will ever really get rid of the trinity system, players will always group themselves like that for raids or instances. On swimming I could care less if it is there or not, not being able to swim does not break my immersion in a space mmo.

    On an unrelated note can we get Zoidberg on a podcast please. Put Pete on the bench for a while and give me some Zoidberg
  • Veriu's avatar
    • Posts: 0
    #27 Veriu Posted 4/21/2011 6:56:49 PM
    I think the discussion about the trinity you guys were having, missed an important concept. I could be wrong, but I think that the idea of the trinity,wasn't designed by devs, but by players. As stats needed to take damage vs stats needed to deal damage are generally not the same, it is more efficient to have one character stack stats to help him survive and other characters stack stats to deal more damage.

    Like the comment about hybrid healer/dps, how if you try to do both, you end up not doing that well at either. So if you have one person healing, and one person dpsing you end up with more heals and more dps, than if you have two people trying to do healing and dps at the same time.

    The idea of the trinity, is simply the result of players finding the optimum group composition. You have one person stacking dodge/parry/HP/whatever defensive stats, and other players stacking strength/int/whatever dps stats. And then you need a healer to keep up that one person who's taking all the damage. If you don't have a tank, then everyone needs to divert some of their stats to increase their survivability. And without a healer, the content is either trivial because nobody can die, or everyone is doing less DPS than they could because they are having to heal themselves repeatedly.
  • DEADHEAD's avatar
    • Posts: 0
    #24 DEADHEAD Posted 4/21/2011 4:27:39 PM
    Seems to me that the trinity has to be in most things. Sun Tzu, football, chess, family dynamics, swtor...

    The push, the pull, and the support... dps, tank, and support... Offense, defense, and support... give, take, and support.

    In diablo we had tools available to each character to provide that which was needed for balance. We
    had heal/mana potions, faster mobility, teleports, and armor/magic defense. It was a solo based game with multiplayer options. Each character was built with the Trinity system. We had attacks (dps), we had defense (tank), and support (cc and heals). You find the game with no trinity and you find a pointless game.

    For me there is soft trinity and hard trinity... either way, it appears to be in everything. Even Call of Duty and Battlefield series. In Super mario we could avoid damage (jump/duck - defense), apply damage (jump on/slam/fireball -offense), and collect extra lives and growth options Support).

    I personally would not want to play a game that lacks a trinity.
  • nonrohs's avatar
    • Posts: 0
    #22 nonrohs Posted 4/20/2011 9:50:40 PM
    Galaxies was a good example of an MMO that doesn't need the trinity. Most classes have a self heal and the ability to bounce mobs/bosses off each other. That way, everyone has a decent amount of defense and damage, and a healer is not needed because of the self heals and bouncing.
  • DEADHEAD's avatar
    • Posts: 0
    #29 DEADHEAD Posted 4/21/2011 7:46:23 PM
    trinity is just soft enough to be solo/player based. Sort of like Mario Bros. or Diablo... Thinking mans game minus the thinking... When ypu expand a game and wish for dynamic groups, a harder trinity is really the only option. If you just want to connect players on a generic level, you soften the trinity. Either way the trinity is there.
  • nonrohs's avatar
    • Posts: 0
    #21 nonrohs Posted 4/20/2011 9:24:42 PM
    I have an example where you don't have to use the "trinity" in most MMOs. Star Wars Galaxies. Everybody has a self heal and you can bounce mobs and bosses to eachother as needed. It seems to work very well, even if the game itself doesn't work very well.
  • Zioni's avatar
    Jawa Trader
    • Posts: 61
    #19 Zioni Posted 4/20/2011 3:46:03 PM
    You guys should do a special episode on just the trinity. Invite hosts from the other TOR podcasts and do a roundtable discussion. I think this would be really interesting and entertaining for those who are new and old to MMOs. Take it all the way from the early days to the latest and greatest and how that has impacted TOR going into launch, and how it may impact TOR in the future.

    Thanks!
  • lemric's avatar
    • Posts: 0
    #20 lemric Posted 4/20/2011 7:02:52 PM
    i personally think that sounds like an awesome idea and would like to see this happen
  • brianadfl's avatar
    • Posts: 0
    #16 brianadfl Posted 4/20/2011 2:51:27 PM
    I'm a sad panda because I like healing. After hearing the podcast saying healers shouldn't be needed I was depressed. I was glad to hear tor was going tol have that type of class in the game.
  • Akerfeldt's avatar
    Jawa Trader
    • Posts: 83
    #13 Akerfeldt Posted 4/20/2011 6:37:47 AM
    I really cannot understand Sado's and other's opposition to permanent stat bonuses on holocrons. I mean for those that have no interest in exploring and finding the holocrons as they level and don't want to miss out on min max goodness, how hard will it be at level cap to grab your personal mount and follow a guide and spend like 2 hours picking them all up in their static and always spawned locations? You only have to do it once EVER per character. I mean this whole notion of "being forced" like it's such an ordeal just doesn't make sense to me. You're willing to farm endless flashpoints and raids for gear and progression and grind mats for consumables, but this is one that hurts??

    This is what happens when you deconstruct, ahem dissect, a game into simple x's and o's and the "bottom line" and miss the point of a game. For me, the idea of being rewarded with a very real and meaningful reward for exploration and for those who like to "complete" a planet before leaving is very exciting indeed.

    Sometimes I feel like the TOR community does not know what what it wants in a game. A lot complain that the game is too familiar or WoW-like, but when they try and break the mold a bit with stat increases like this, people feel their comfort zone violated and react.

    I will be disappointed if Bioware caves on the stat increase and changes it. I worry sometimes that they listen too much to the community instead of following their own creative vision. A creative vision doesn't require community consensus nor does it cave in the first sign of discontent. And if they DON'T have a creative vision and are simply developing the game via polls? God help us all.
  • krueby's avatar
    Jawa Trader
    • Posts: 66
    #26 krueby Posted 4/21/2011 4:58:40 PM
    In total agreement. They are adding another form of gameplay for people, besides the norm of grinding flashpoints/warzones.
  • DarthSerious's avatar
    Jawa Trader
    • Posts: 251
    #15 DarthSerious Posted 4/20/2011 12:39:11 PM
    Great points. I am kinda on the fence depending on how big these rewards are though.

    Also, if the consideration of holocrons offering an advantage is the issue, I think the trade-off is actually that the people who spend the time discovering the planet and eventually getting the holocrons will level slower than those playing the games without the holocrons. So the Holocrons will most likely not affect those fast tracking in the game. Then when the fast trackers reach the end game before the explorers do, they can get a guide like you mentioned. So those who do not explore, will always be overpowered, and then can explore the worlds to get the rest of their bonus stats, quicker than the explorer could.

    It is a nice reward to offer something for the explorers. I read there was a person in WoW who lvled to 85 by just exploring and crafting, and only died 20 times to get there.

    Also, why would someone want to miss out on a chance of using a guide to help them explore the SW galaxy. We should take the time to enjoy the worlds as well, since BW has made it clear there is a lot of detail in their worlds. They also don't want you to miss it with these incentives, and it only will take us a little extra time I presume with a guide.

    Also I plan on exploring the worlds, so it is not a big deal for me.

    Also I am not a min/maxer so not having all the maximum stats is not a big deal as well. I definitely can represent my class in any game without the best items. In fact it makes it more enjoyable to not be the easy ownage. I get bored of games where I have the best and easiest class, and every opponent poses no threat even in pvp. I would get bored of that, since i do not enjoy torturing players with killing sprees, but playing competitively with them as a sport.

  • DEADHEAD's avatar
    • Posts: 0
    #25 DEADHEAD Posted 4/21/2011 4:40:42 PM
    were talking about a datacron... you go to a spot, interact with something, than move on...

    Sounds pretty standard.. Pick a quest... you go to a location, interact, move on.

    Lets go old skoolz - Super Mario 2... you see a huge coin, you figure out how to get to its location (or you dont) , interact with it, and move on!

    Dinner - you go to a location (kitchen, dinner table, restaurant), interact with it (this means we eat it), and move on...

    I think it is rediculous to just refuse this because we dont understand it.
  • Rieltar's avatar
    • Posts: 0
    #14 Rieltar Posted 4/20/2011 10:59:26 AM
    At least then we'd have Nautolans :D ;)
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