The Guiding Principle of Darth Hater's SW:TOR Speculation

After reviewing many of our recent speculation articles, we felt it was time to take a step back and reveal the core foundation of the logic that drives our conclusions. We strongly believe BioWare is approaching game design in a significantly different manner than what we see in other MMOs: instead of simply copying primary game elements and introducing a few new ideas, we believe the core principle at BioWare is to completely avoid significant MMO flaws through design innovation that wont negatively affect other areas of Star Wars: The Old Republic. Therefore, we believe these design innovations will compliment each other and integrate seamlessly throughout the game.

When attempting to solve common MMO problems such as stale character progression, faction or class imbalances, BioWare must use the Star Wars universe itself to creatively consolidate their design innovations. We think BioWares fourth pillar of Story actually has to permeate even further into the other pillars of Combat, Progression, and Exploration and these pillars are intertwined in such a way that they seem to solve these issues from the outset.

BioWare co-founder Dr. Ray Muzyka alluded to this when he spoke to IncGamers:

Well, we always look at things from a customer-centric perspective, so if the customers are enjoying the features then we try and implement them. If there's areas for innovation or improvement, then well generally go for it and try our best to innovate and improve on the systems. But any genre will have conventions that players are used to and are comfortable with, and I think its wise to consider those, at least, even if you're choosing to innovate or radically depart from them, its still wise to consider why the players enjoy those kinds of conventions and is there a way to approach them and evolve them, maybe, or innovate within the constraints that the players are comfortable with, as opposed to trying to start from first principles, so its a mix of both sometimes. You want to understand why the players enjoy playing a certain kind of system, and the mechanics you describe there are reasons why those are fun in some ways. Could they be improved? Well, yeah, I think they can, and to the extent that we think they can, well try and innovate on those in Star Wars: The Old Republic.


An obvious example of the principle driving BioWares design innovation is tackling an indigenous MMO problem: creating one size fits all character progression with maybe some differences in starting zone and class quests thrown in. World of Warcraft tried to address this problem of people wanting to get through this repeated, same content as quickly as possible by increasing experience gains and introducing heirloom items, among other methods. BioWares insistence that all the classes are unique and therefore have class-specific stories means they completely avoid this problem, and possibly extend the life of the game to those who want to roll multiple characters. In the same context, it makes sense to the Star Wars universe itself that a Bounty Hunter wouldn't have the same character progression via story as the Sith Warrior. Therefore, BioWare addressed this particular issue right from the beginning.

We also realized BioWare took a significantly different approach to designing them: instead of building up the classes to suit very specific roles like Everquest, World of Warcraft, Warhammer, Aion, etc., BioWare appears to be taking more of a bottom-up approach. In our view, this means that instead of saying okay, we have these roles of tank, healer, and damage-dealer, so we now have to make classes that can fulfill those roles, BioWare possibly inversed the typical MMO combat design principle to build classes that may echo what Brian Green outlines in his latest Gamasutra article:

This design (eliminating specialized roles) isnt just about having each class able to fill any trinity role. MMO combat would feel more dynamic in this system. Every player would have to react to combat events and defend against attacks. Some characters might be able to protect others, but it wouldnt always be the heavily armored character trying to draw a majority of the enemys attention. Healing would be more of an emergency thing done at a cost in combat to help a character that has not been defending well.

Obviously good class design is important in order to provide tradeoffs between the classes. A heavily armored fighter with a big sword might not be able to defend against magic attacks, whereas the magic slinger might fall prey to sneak attacks if not paying attention. Each class would still have strengths, weaknesses, and individual flavor, but they wouldn't fall into the precisely defined roles that the trinity design encourages.

This doesnt necessarily eliminate the trinity of core roles from the game, however. A player could decide to focus on being able to take repeated, punishing hits while protecting other players and therefore fulfill a Tank role. However, eliminating explicit roles means that players are not forced into a specific combat role through class choices or game design requirements.


When we deciphered the Holonet class outfitting sections to discover that all eight classes must logically have both a support and damage path, we also discovered that there must be enough variety of customization built into these path choices that could completely avoid the common MMO problem of forcibly pigeonholing players into pre-determined roles via cookie-cutter specialization. BioWares resolute insistence of not forcing you to play the game against your true enjoyment is becoming a mantra or battle standard to highlight their avoidance of this particular problem within their class design. If we interpreted this message correctly, then BioWare might very well avoid some of the common pitfalls such as class imbalance for PvP and PvE, the majority of the constant nerf/buff cycle, lack of customization, itemization problems, grouping, and poor integration of various game play types, etc.

Without deducing BioWares approach to class design, it would be impossible for us to logically speculate how the other major areas of the game would be implemented specifically itemization, PvP, PvE, and possibly space combat because we believe this approach should permeate in a similar manner throughout the entire game. In the coming weeks and months, we will apply and test this theory through additional speculation articles focusing on these very areas. We might successfully assemble the complete puzzle from pieces of BioWares public marketing alone because, as our faithful readers and community consistently point out, the entire game is hidden in the Holonet.

Comments

  • #15
    Based on other interviews (there was one in particular that supports my point, it talked about themes about classes in it as well, if anyone could link it that would be great), it seems like instead of BW building classes with roles in mind, the roles come secondary. For example, their primary goal of creating the BH class is a class that is fun, and feels like you're playing a BH. Whether he can dps or tank or support in some way, etc. is not class design, but simply a side effect of being a Bounty Hunter. With the JK, you got this melee master with heavy armor on, that's what a Jedi knight is. So when they go and make the abilities, they are going to reflect that, not force roles in when needed, which is why we're not seeing a "healing class," and why we're seeing smugglers with cover (could offer tanking abilities later down the road, at least some damage mitigation), and mix matching of class roles. I doubt players will dedicate to one role and only one role: my suspicion is that we'll see players doing multiple roles at the same time. For example, we're not going to see a Consular that just waves his arms around to heal people. He has the Force and a freaking lightsaber, so he's going to use them eventually to do some damage. A trooper isn't going to be some squishy dps that dies in one hit like dps warriors in WoW: all troopers will have heavy armor. Smugglers will be dpsing behind cover, which offers damage mitigation potential. Even when a Sith Warrior tanks, he's still going to do some significant damage because he has a lightsaber, and knows how to use it.
  • #12
    Thanks for your comment. :)

    As for the aggro thing, we haven't seen evidence of a Taunt-like mechanic yet, and the Sith Group screenshot is currently my desktop wallpaper. :)
  • #9
    I found this while I tried to look up more information about the Sith Warrior. The Gamespot Article says:

    "GS: Given the heavy armor, lightsaber abilities, and Force powers, how would you characterize the class in the parlance of what people expect from massively multiplayer characters? What kind of player will be most attracted to playing this profession?"

    "JO: Players who enjoy being in front of the fight and deflecting enemy attacks will enjoy the Sith Warrior, as well as those who prefer dishing out loads of damage. I know those are two very different roles, but there are certain choices that a Sith Warrior can make that will specialize him in one form of combat over the other. We'll be talking more about that in the future. "

    James Ohlen obviously is hinting here on what you guys at DH are speculating. This fits perfectly for what you guys were saying.
  • #13
    Thanks for finding that. :)

    That quote was definitely one we took into consideration (among others) to develop the theory. If we keep seeing something repeating across the media like that, we do our best to figure out what we think the true meaning behind it is... just like the stuff we see in the Holonet.
  • #6
    While the speculation is fun, I'd like to see more of a critical approach from the media (and not just players on the forums :)

    Today at Massively was a good example - an editorial about which ball they're going to drop before launch (read it here: http://www.massively.com/2009/12/29/the-digital-continuum-swtors-content-conundrums/)

    This is obviously my opinion, but I think too many outlets are glad-handing BioWare and giving them waaaaay too much benefit of doubt. BioWare isn't going to produce a perfect game right out of the gate, and more constructive criticism from the media may help keep it all in check.

    My position on the forums is usually one of antagonist. I am critical in nearly every case, not necessarily because I disagree, but because I want to push the community and push BioWare. But 1 critical forum poster (or even many) isn't a loud enough voice... we need the media!

    In the end, I am going to treat this game like its my first MMO, not compare it to anything else and see what fun it brings (or leaves behind!) But in the mean time, I'm going to continue to be critical of TOR and BioWare because I think it can only help.

    They're going to make the game they want anyway, they're not going to change it for a bunch of forum posters, but always hearing a little voice chirping over your shoulder keeps you on your toes ;)
  • #11
    That Massively "editorial" made me feel like I was reading a troll thread in GD.

    If people like that kind of sensationalistic bashing stuff, and have some pseudo-Napoleon complex that they can actually influence the development of the game with editorial pieces laden with criticisms of other games the company in question didn't develop... well, more power to them.

    That isn't what we do here. We instead think critically to deduce what we think the developer's design approach is, test our theory, and then if it holds up, we logically apply it to speculating other parts of the game. That is fun for us, and I hope our readers enjoy it too.

    There is a difference between critical thinking based on evidence, and outright criticism.

    Happy Holidays, and in the future, please keep your commentary to the topic of the article.
  • #14
    Well, my comments were about speculation... that's what this piece was about right?

    I didn't say "you" or DH have to do it, I merely commented that once in a while, "critical" speculation from a reputable media source would do the community some good. And do BioWare some good in the process.

    It's not about getting them to change anything... but to get them to think and rethink things that the community is currently talking about. There's not a thing bad about that.

    None of us can criticize the game because we haven't played it. But we can (and probably should) be critical of BioWare and their process. This is done through nothing more than another form of the same speculation you use for your post. Just from a different angle :)
  • #10
    I'm not talking about being critical with the literal game, because it's not out yet.

    Instead, I'm talking about being taking a critical stance on BioWare, their development process, the information they release (and don't release) and everything in between.

    Especially given the nature of how they're doing things, and the forums they've created, criticism based on speculation is inevitable; they set themselves up for it (intentionally.)

    Every media outlet doesn't have to automatically like and agree with everything BioWare is saying... that's my point.

    But I've seen rare few editorialize their feelings.
  • #5
    It seems all MMOs have the same idea of fetch/find me this quests and open-ended, “we can’t be bogged down with giving you an actual story” game play. MMORPGs are hindered by being stuck in the dark ages of gaming, it like we’re back to playing early Final Fantasy and Dragon Warrior games. It doesn’t matter how massive or intricate their item index and quest system is, without certain modern advancements from modern RPGs. The major “golden object” most modern RPGs accomplish is good storytelling. This is where SW:ToR’s 4th pillar will answer the call, this is the pillar that will turn the 4 separate process in to one systematic process, and completely revolutionize (or modernize, depending on how you look at it) the MMO industry. In most MMORPGs, you’re lucky if you get a story at all. The reason I am so eager to play SW:ToR is simply because of the way BioWare made Mass Effect and Baldur’s Gate, Kotor, Dragon age: Origins, with stellar story telling that permeated every aspect of the game from combat to the way you made your choices to how you leveled up; the amazing story mad the amazing game.
    World of Warcraft and Final Fantasy XI both attempted to install technologies that would allow the player to more fully grasp the narratives presented. In this manner, FFXI’s instances with cut-scenes as opposed to WoW’s rather game play-driven instances were actually more successful because they add a degree of virtual acting. If all I wanted was game play I’d be humping The Orange Box in its Portal all day, but that’s not the only thing I want. It’s an RPG, online or not, give me a friggin story. For the reasons listed above ToR will be the best in many if not all areas of an MMORPG because it will provide something that wasn’t completely half-assed. The sad thing is if you really look at it, most people who play games WoW or STO have been or will be duped into to doing virtual chores. Now finally someone has chosen to get out there and change this frivolous shit.
  • #4
    Good article Em.
  • #2
    Emlaeh says, "BioWare’s resolute insistence of not forcing you to play the game against your true enjoyment is becoming a mantra or battle standard to highlight their avoidance of this particular problem within their class design. If we interpreted this message correctly, then BioWare might very well avoid some of the common pitfalls such as class imbalance for PvP and PvE, the majority of the constant nerf/buff cycle, lack of customization, itemization problems, grouping, and poor integration of various game play types, etc."

    Well said. I was that player that was left out as a priest healer wanting to do dps someday. My guild never let me because our dps spec was not good at all during the Pre-BC era. Feeling deprived, I felt like I was bitched to do something than do something that I, MYSELF, want. I did not want to be "caged" to one thing, and I rather feel free to do whatever I want and enjoy doing it without feeling being as a noticeable tank, dps, or healer. It was frustrating to have classes have the best abilities for one spec and the rest shitty for pve or pvp, leading to cookie cutter bullshit that I hated so much. There is a reason why people were laughed at being as Ret Paladin, Mutilate Rogue, Shadow Priest, Holy Dps priest, Melee Hunter, and Enhancement shaman pre bc because those unique paths were just wasted and thrown down the dumpsters while others flourish and became the new "standard" to pvp/pve. I think thats why its important to innovate and enhance the path system and combat system to not make it feel like its "trinity" but similiar but much more improved where everyone has a chance.

    With BioWare, you noted, I hope this system you say comes true and that it will reveal a system where every path and class has a chance to experience a heroic view of wonderful gameplay without feeling forced to do something or "bitched" to do something. Thank you Emlaeh for being a wonderful writer and decode BioWare's mystery facts and theories. :)

    <3 DH Team

    -Macer
  • #1
    Fasiniating Indeed! I shall use my bigger scales.

    -Inserts article into new and improved LogicMater 97450+
    -Execute logic.exe-
    *Calculating data*
    .........
    .......
    ...*number crunch*....bzzz
    ............
    ...*clank clunk logic*......
    ..
    ......
    ...........
    ..zzbbrrrrrr.....
    ..................
    ...........
    .................
    ....
    *Finishing Report*
    ....
    ...
    ..
    .
    *Final conclusion reached, general population has no idea what they are speculating about, this proves to be more logic then ever before.*
    ..beep..boooop..
    -End logic.exe-
    -Close program-
    Ha, just as I thought, this makes way too much sense for most readers to handle. However this post will get swallowed up by naysayers and doom bringers...what a shame.
  • #8
    You spelled fascinating wrong.
  • #3
    Cool Story Bro.
  • #7
    Not you too BBP...
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