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Damion Schubert on Balancing Group & Solo XP

A post from Star Wars: The Old Republic's Damion Schubert gave some insight on balancing XP gains for solo and group players:

We increase the XP pool for each group member in it, and then divide that pool. I don't have the number in front of me, but its something we'll be tweaking as we play anyway.

The general gist is that we want to reward grouping, but not so much that grouping is the only way to play the game (something that is very easy to do if you tilt the table too much, and then balance the levelling curve to that rate gain). That being said, as some have mentioned, grouping with another person increases your killing efficiency and reduces your risk of death substantially, to the degree that being in a group of two is vastly more efficient than 2X killing efficiency (this is like most MMOs). Still, you want to reward grouping enough to help ensure that you overcome the friction associated with grouping (finding groupmates, getting to them, tolerating idiots, etc).

Other notes:

  • Yes, we have anti-twink measures. Yes, high level players get shut out if they kill creatures too far below them. This is a fine line - you want to let high level players help their new friends, but you really don't want high level players hunting in low level areas, as that can be disruptive to the lowbies.

  • Yes, compared to other MMOs, we give you more XP for completing quests and less for killing creatures. These numbers will also likely be continually tweaked.

  • Yes, harder things give more experience.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Xavior
Group of 5 level 10's killing a level 10 mob: 100 xp each
Group of 3 level 10's killing a level 10 mob: 100 xp each
Solo person of level 10 killing a level 10 mob: 100 xp

no one gets screwed, no one is forced to group and everyone is happy.

Balancing it's not that easy. Instead, you need to look at XP gain per hour. A group of 3 can kill (let's say) 5X the creatures than a solo player can in an hour, which means that if you give everyone the full XP value, grouping is 5X() more efficient than soloing. If you balance the curve to that, the solo player gets screwed.

In our curve, we push that towards being closer to 2-3X. Still a significant advantage, but the grouper has to deal with all of the inertia of forming a group.

Comments

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  • David256's avatar
    • Posts: 0
    #28 David256 Posted 3/24/2010 11:56:07 PM
    This is what they need to do. Encourage grouping, but not force it. Instead of making the content group-focused and then trying to make it soloable, they're making it soloable first and then making groups a viable option. It's smart - even if groups WERE 5x as efficient, you could still solo if you wanted to because nothing is stopping you. If you did want to give in and get a group, there'd be plenty of people doing it because it's 5x as efficient.
  • Xavior's avatar
    • Posts: 0
    #24 Xavior Posted 3/23/2010 1:06:06 AM
    lol my post made it to darth hater with the GM's help.
  • Sundeki's avatar
    • Posts: 0
    #21 Sundeki Posted 3/22/2010 8:02:33 PM
    I really hope this works properly. I like going solo, and if this doesnt work, then i will be screwed.
  • neth's avatar
    • Posts: 0
    #18 neth Posted 3/22/2010 6:52:15 PM
    "you really don't want high level players hunting in low level areas"

    I hope they still allow ganking.
  • Korrick's avatar
    • Posts: 0
    #20 Korrick Posted 3/22/2010 7:14:09 PM
    Im thinking there gonna do it like wow were the opposite faction cant attack you in your zone unless you attack first. Now after you hit the contested planets then let the ganking begin.
  • jeyhu's avatar
    • Posts: 0
    #23 jeyhu Posted 3/22/2010 11:53:43 PM
    I don't mind the ganking crap as long as they have some sort of system in place to help protect the newbies. The max level character mindlessly killing lower level players shouldn't get any XP (if they have it for pvp kills), should not count the death as a PvP kill (again if that's included) and after "harassing" the newbies long enough should end up on the Bounty Hunter terminals so a Player Bounty Hunter can come take them out (if a Bounty System is in place)
  • Korrick's avatar
    • Posts: 0
    #26 Korrick Posted 3/23/2010 6:03:46 AM
    I kind of like that idea with the bounty system, there have been many times when I was trying to level a character and kept getting ganked repeatedly for new good reason. This idea would stop people from corpse camping.
  • RogueJedi86's avatar
    Jawa Trader
    • Posts: 3118
    #25 RogueJedi86 Posted 3/23/2010 3:10:02 AM
    A bounty system would be interesting, but they'd have to open it up to a Republic class too, for cases of Imps ganking low level Reps. I'd suggest Trooper for that, doing ordered assassinations from the Chancellor or something. Troopers seem the best Republic class to take out hits, moreso than Smuggler(maybe) and the Jedi.
  • sgtsavage's avatar
    • Posts: 0
    #27 sgtsavage Posted 3/23/2010 5:58:09 PM
    They way I see it if it was like the trooper in the case of bounites is that the trooper would be like hired "police" or "FBI" agents to take down baddies, they have an implied "goodness" to their bounties because the law backs them up and they are hired tools of the government so action is justified. On the other hand, Bounty Hunters have no real laws to back them up they are act on credits and incentives. Kinda like government spehere vs. private sphere hahaha. That be sweet not gonna lie.
  • Loekii's avatar
    • Posts: 0
    #12 Loekii Posted 3/22/2010 2:50:35 AM
    Has there been any mention of how XP is affected with and without a companion? Also curious if they will be following the standard Content Level determining the Loot table set up.
  • Korrick's avatar
    • Posts: 0
    #19 Korrick Posted 3/22/2010 7:05:15 PM
    Since everyone has a companion I don't think its going to affect your xp.
  • GoHann's avatar
    Jawa Trader
    • Posts: 289
    #10 GoHann Posted 3/22/2010 1:55:26 AM
    It appears that Bioware is really starting to open up with regards to what there members can/are saying on the forums. I love it.

    Wound in the Force::GoHann (lvl 35 Maurader)

  • Loekii's avatar
    • Posts: 0
    #13 Loekii Posted 3/22/2010 2:52:54 AM
    While I understand a 'hands off' approach, it is appreciated when the staff is able to interact with the community and participate in discussions. Presents a more friendly atmosphere -- hanging out in the kitchen making small talk, than having us remain outside until dinner is ready, imo.
  • L'innommable's avatar
    Jawa Trader
    • Posts: 89
    #7 L'innommable Posted 3/22/2010 12:52:20 AM
    'Yes, compared to other MMOs, we give you more XP for completing quests and less for killing creatures'
    I guess the grinding won't be a severe option. It was expected as the stry, thus questing is favoured, but, the ones who will want to grind for some reason won't be well rewarded. At least, this is how I interpret these words.
  • Bzrk's avatar
    • Posts: 0
    #14 Bzrk Posted 3/22/2010 8:05:49 AM
    Allods Online also does this. That game cannot be compared to SWTOR, but the essence is the same. It makes Story more important because you need to do quests in order to level properly. And because SWTOR has that animated conversation and story thing, this will only suit the game better.
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