Darth Hater

Star Wars: The Old Republic News, Interviews, Media & Podcast

BioWare's Damion Schubert on Win Expectancy

In the latest issue of Game Developer Magazine, Star Wars: The Old Republic's Damion Schubert opines on win expectancy, and gives plenty of examples of what works and what doesn't when it comes to game difficulty.

However, Schubert complained he only received three emails about the column. We think you should email him (damion at zenofdesign dot com) and let him know you enjoyed this line in the article (though you should spring for at least the PDF copy of the article, as it is a good read):

Already, games are starting to notice that players are failing more often than expected and asking them if they want to adjust their game's difficulty on the fly. In the future, more will start doing this behind the scenes -- to have AI determine the worthiness of the foe and adjust automatically.

Don't forget to mention to Damion Schubert that Darth Hater sent you, and hopefully we can assist in breaking his article feedback record.

Comments

Page 1 of 2
  • 1
  • 2
  • Xavier's avatar
    Jawa Trader
    • Posts: 497
    #14 Xavier Posted 5/21/2010 3:08:37 PM
    The "add a comment" on the newest entry doesn't seem to be working.
  • Loekii's avatar
    • Posts: 0
    #13 Loekii Posted 5/21/2010 1:51:18 PM
    "Already, games are starting to notice that players are failing more often than expected"

    Failing MORE???

    Games have been easier and easier, imo, so I am alarmed and curious at such a trend.

    I am by no mean a pro at games, but I find that I am 'winning' more and more -- much more than I want to, as it now feels like games are 'letting me win'. So how can so many be 'failing'?

    Could video games be becoming a vicious cycle of teaching gamers to be 'Bad players'?
  • Asomatous's avatar
    • Posts: 0
    #18 Asomatous Posted 5/22/2010 6:16:54 PM
    I think the real secret behind this "hand holding' trend is this - If you think about it, what happens when a gamer starts to consistently fail/give up in an mmo? they cancel subscription. So how does one remedy this?, well, make a system where the difficulty is auto adjusted for those that are struggling and they are bound to stay.

    On the flip side of the coin, I am pretty sure they are making high end aspects rather challenging for those that like to work through a challenge.

    What you end up with is an MMO that's both, a challenge for those that want it, and easy for those who would rather have it easy, and that equals a whole lot of subscriptions.
  • Savich's avatar
    Jawa Trader
    • Posts: 85
    #12 Savich Posted 5/21/2010 1:11:39 PM
    I didn't read the whole article but that quote was pretty interesting because that type of system AI does work. Has anyone here played inFAMOUS? After about 10 minutes of cruising through that game It paused on it's own and a box appeared and asked me if I would like the difficulty to be ramped up. I clicked yes and well what do you know...the game got a little more challenging. Instead of one mob rushing at me I had 2-3 on my tail. It was fun and it worked.

    If a small studio like Suckerpunch can pull it off I am sure Bioware can also.
  • Exorius's avatar
    • Posts: 0
    #10 Exorius Posted 5/21/2010 10:41:54 AM
    Can tell me where can I find "at least the PDF copy of the article, as it is a good read"?
  • Asomatous's avatar
    • Posts: 0
    #8 Asomatous Posted 5/21/2010 5:44:45 AM
    I hate beating a dead horse, mostly because they're so cute.. But, a lot of times when I read updates on the game's progress I can't help but think "Most Common Denominator".

    And that kinda worries me.
  • ArcherAvatar's avatar
    • Posts: 0
    #6 ArcherAvatar Posted 5/21/2010 5:10:28 AM
    Yet another sign of the coming "Hand-holding" Apocalypse! Whatever happened to just being good enough to succeed or you fail?
    Sometimes I think the current generation of whining baby gamers are going to create a generation of game developers that will put the "Suc" into succeed....
  • Loekii's avatar
    • Posts: 0
    #7 Loekii Posted 5/21/2010 5:40:03 AM
    Yeah, that is the gist I get from it. :-( And I am open to that I am just misreading it.

    Would this mean if I run at a mob, armed only with a Banana, the AI would 'adjust' and suddenly be deathly allergic to bananas?
  • Ascendant's avatar
    • Posts: 0
    #9 Ascendant Posted 5/21/2010 7:24:15 AM
    If the 'risk' of the encounter were to be lowered to such a level, you can bet the reward would also be minimal. In your scenario, the only thing you'd be looting is a slightly less ripe banana. It doesn't really matter to me if they make it so less experienced players can defeat an encounter, so long as the reward is also adjusted appropriately. I suspect a system like this would work within very careful bounds so that it can't swing too far in either direction.
  • ArcherAvatar's avatar
    • Posts: 0
    #11 ArcherAvatar Posted 5/21/2010 11:58:15 AM
    I understand your point, and I have no doubt that they will attempt to implement it within "careful bounds" but I have no confidence in their ability to keep it within "careful bounds." I'm old, and I've been playing games on the computer going back to the MUD days. I've seen more than a few of those snowballs start rolling gently - only to end up crashing thru the sleepy village, killing 12 and wounding 33.

    More to the point however, is the fact that the mind (or gaming skills) function very much like the muscles of a body - in so far as; the more you use them, the stronger they get. With these current trends in the gaming industry we're going to end up with an entire generation who couldn't punch their way out of a paper bag in a video game, so to speak.

    When I was learning to play Chess... I looked for people who were better than I currently was to play against. The harder the competition, the better the chances were that I would learn something valuable in that match.
    Essentially, what I'm most concerned about is the attitude that the Industry seems to have where they are bending over backwards to reduce, or remove alltogether, any challenge or meaningful obstacles from their games. IF anyone can succeed at a game, THEN no one can in fact "succeed" at that game.

    /end rant
  • Fiasco's avatar
    • Posts: 0
    #15 Fiasco Posted 5/21/2010 3:33:01 PM
    Just wanted to agree with your post ArcherAvatar. It seems that game developers want to take the "lump" receiving out of game play.

    10 times total. Great story, no challenge. Hopefully ME2 will be better.

    Anyone else remember playing the same level over and over and over and over again, just to get passed some crazy boss/ mob/ jump sequence? LoL, or games like Skate or Die that basically only allowed you to play for 90s/$.25?
  • RogueJedi86's avatar
    Jawa Trader
    • Posts: 3118
    #17 RogueJedi86 Posted 5/21/2010 9:11:58 PM
    Fiasco, try bumping the difficulty up if Normal is too easy. Maybe you're just a more advanced gamer who is basically equivalent to Veteran difficulty. I've ran into several people who are more on the level of the harder difficulties than normal.

    Hell, I bumped up my difficulty in ME2 to Hardcore for one mission(to get a weapon only unlocked on that difficulty, ME2 players will know the one). I expected it to be impossible since it's only one difficulty less than Insanity(the hardest difficulty). I was surprised at how easy it was. I died like 10 times during the 3-path part of the mission, but I was learning the enemy's locations each time and gradually making progress, until I finally beat it. I've been considering sticking to that difficulty since I enjoyed the challenge.

    So maybe you should bump ME1's difficulty up to Veteran. :)
  • Loekii's avatar
    • Posts: 0
    #16 Loekii Posted 5/21/2010 7:18:56 PM
    Well Damion comments that the success rate (ie how often you win a fight) is targeted at 95% --- if I understood what he was saying correctly.
  • MrPhire's avatar
    • Posts: 0
    #5 MrPhire Posted 5/21/2010 12:31:36 AM
    We know why he hasn't got enough emails... It's a part of Game Developer Magazine. I mean who here subscribes to this magazine or sees it in their grocery store? Not many I bet.
  • shadowfyre's avatar
    Jawa Trader
    • Posts: 78
    #2 shadowfyre Posted 5/20/2010 8:47:43 PM
    lol, i can imagine some pretty hilarious AI bugs with this system in testing.

    Bosses suddenly 1 hit everyone, or are able to be 1 hit.
  • To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
Page 1 of 2
  • 1
  • 2

Most Commented Articles

Go to Articles

Tag Cloud

More