Darth Hater

I find the notion that subscriptions are the thing that drove most players away from SWTOR extremely dubious.  The biggest issue I saw among the players I hung out with (the guild, Saints of the Old Republic) was QUALITY, followed closely by the lack of durable content.  In SWTOR, once you've done the stories, you're done.

Our guild was HUGE at Launch -- generally AT LEAST four pages of players logged in.  But as boredom set in, and frustration with the game's many Q/A issues (the western PvP zone on Ilum, anyone?) set in, people gradually dropped out.  The way I see it, the only reason the sub fee is even an issue is that the game is perceived as a poor value.  If it were a quality product, I think millions would be happy to pony up.  But as it stands, it's widely perceived as just not worth paying for.

To put it another way, it's like the difference between paying fifteen bucks for a steak dinner with all the trimmings, and paying fifteen bucks for a "slider" (a disgusting little two-inch-square greasebomb of a burger, for those of you who have never experienced the thrill) from White Castle.  I'd gladly pay $15 for a fine steak dinner.  Fifteen bucks for a slider?  NO WAY.

I'm really not against the game going F2P, it doesnt affect me in any way.

The problem I have with this whole thing though is it doesnt really make sense to me. The best part of the game is universaly considered to be the story and levelling of 1-49. That part of the game is now completely free. SWTOR going F2P will undoubtedly bring in a ton more players because of this, and I suppose more players = more potential revenue, but I just dont see there being a whole lot worth paying for if all you are interested in is the story (which many people will be).

Secondly, this does absolutely _nothing_ to fix what are the incredibly numerous amount of broken things about the game. The optimist in me would like to think that because now all end-game 'content' is only completable by paying subscribers (free players cant do operations, have limited numbers of flashpoints/warzones per week, etc), that Bioware will essentially be forced to put development time towards the area that people pay (here's hoping for guild capital ships and interior ship customisation, full 3d free-flight space combat with multiplayer & coop missions, mini-games like swoop racing & pazaak etc, and just in general a wider variety of things to do at end-game). The realist in me says that most of the time will be spend on cosmetic fluff and trying to get people to pay for that (which, honestly, in itself is not a bad thing - SWTOR needs more fluff as its something the game lacks, but it doesnt need it at the exclusion of everything else).

Lastly, we currently have no idea what the Cartel coins can be used for other than 3 items (a mask, a pet, and a chair - none of which interest me in the slightest). We also dont know how much items will cost. So really this doesnt bode well for me, because it doesnt really seem like it will be very successful (again, i dont care that its going F2P - just that this particular way of F2P makes little sense to me as the best content in the game is free, and the dull repetitive content is paid).

This move will 100% bring in a ton of more players, I'm just questioning whether it will bring them in any more money. I also highly doubt it will do anything to improve whats really broken about the game - the kind of changes that would actually bring back a ton of paying subscribers.

everyone keeps focusing on that quote of, "40% left the game because of pay2play".  i 100% believe that it was too narrow of a choice in a multiple choice exit survey.  i believe a more focused question would reveal that 40% left the game because it wasn't worth the sub fee, not because they loved the game and just couldn't afford the expenditure, which is what they're trying to make it sound like.  oh, f2p will make everything all better (yeah right).  i just believe the distinction is a very valid one.  i quit paying because the game isn't worth a monthly sub, not because i couldn't afford it or that i'm cheap. 

having said that, i just don't understand how making the one area of the game that is its strongest characteristic f2p will solve any cash problems while keeping their weakest content p2p.  i might come back down the road to play TOR for free, but i will never drop coin on it again for any reason until/and unless they get a game engine that can handle more than 16 players on the same map at one time doing stuff and prove to me they can release new, high quality and fun content on a reasonable schedule that doesn't cater solely to raiders. 

from what i've heard of their f2p model so far, i think the way they're implementing it will actually turn more people away.  they're gonna cut storage space, credits already earned, forum posting privileges, etc.   this isn't going to save TOR, not by a long shot.  sub games that go f2p just can't compete with games/game companies that embrace the model as a fundamental part of their designs (ala ANet/GW1&2). 

Wouldn't be the first time Bioware slanted poll questions/options to yield a predesired result, won't be the last. It's not like they're competing against their fans, one would think honest feedback would be more beneficial but whatevs.

The F2P announcement is lacking many details.

We don't even know yet if continuing to subscribe up until F2P is a good deal or not because the cartel coins have had no real money price put on them and there's no details on what they buy in the cash shop so the only way to be sure is unsub until F2P is launched

By the way we've been paying for at least some of the team to develop the F2P systems rather than content since the day they decided to make this move.

I will let my sub run out (by mid august), then I will play GW2 for a few months, then by november I plan on playing SWTOR (for free) a little bit to see how it's doing. When BW implement some more features further down the road, maybe I will resub.

And I mean it, really MAYBE, because there will be a REAL F2P GW2 and PS2... so yeah, SWTOR will have to be a really BAD ASS Star Wars MMO or I will never again resub.

What you guys think will happen? Will SWTOR ever be a really bad ass Star Wars MMO?

:)

sado and the rest of the darth hater crew maybe can answer this for me?

tor came out with a free to play to 15 yeah? and that was this month in July ? and if yes why this?

i love this game still  but i just don't understand why they would open up free to 15 then a whole free to 50

with cartel points...i don't understand,

and if they only needed 500k subs and with this call they say " hey it dips below  1 mill " then the game is still doing well i thought.

also im really waiting and hoping for this secret space project that they had planned..is that still coming ?

maybe its just me but i feel that they were just taking way to long between content updates.

ill be sticking with tor. i still enjoy it. but damn this feels like a punch in the guts

Quote from VegaT88 »

and if they only needed 500k subs and with this call they say " hey it dips below  1 mill " then the game is still doing well i thought.

I know I not DH but my guess is to stop the bleeding.  EA/BW probably figures it will drop below 500K soonish and this is their move to keep the game profitable

Not long ago, Daniel Erickson said all the "must have" features were done and complete, Still no mention of space combat save new rails so don't expect much if anything. Between Mass Effect 3's original ending and swtor's space combat, blown opportunity has become par fo the course.

P.S. Something I would ABSOLUTELY pay for is decorating my ship interior.  This is something I REALLY loved about the game "Star Wars: X-Wing Alliance".  Another great thing would be the guild capital ships that were discussed pre-launch and make them customizable.  Star Trek Online just introduced Fleet Starbases which are esssentially the same thing and since then I've been logging in daily to help my old guild construct their Starbase, which is the only part of the game I participate in, because that was such a major goal of our guild prior to F2P when I was still playing.

Is there a way you can move some of my comments from the F2P announcement thread to here? Some of them would fit better here. Long posts short is I dislike it and went to snark at varying angles, including my most recent post on how this doesn't seem to fit in lore at all, and indeed shatters lore by the tiniest attempts to justify it in-universe.

To build on what TheFoucault said, part of SWTOR's problem is due to consumers voting against the standard MMO model, i.e., quest to max level and then faction grind/pvp while you wait for more content to be released.

I saw people complain about burnout with that approach, no matter what the content was, over and over again on the forums.  I agree with them too.  I've finished most of the questing I care to do and I'm not eager to grind/pvp for the months I will need for the game to feel fresh again. 

With F2P, at least you can do your waiting for free.  But without micro-transactions how are they going to make any money?  Pay to Win may not be far behind (but then again, it's so easy, what would you pay for?  Lol).

Thought of one more thing I wanted to say.  I hope F2P means more people see what a difference high quality voice acting and story telling make to MMOs and to games in general.  I really hope SWTOR raises the bar for what gamer's expect and designers deliver.  It has a better shot of doing it if everybody plays it, too.  :)

Yeah me too, i played the BWE 2 and 3 of GW2 and after seeing the the voice acting and quest giving in that game i just left me completely flat after TORs fantastic questing, both aspects in GW2 are simply laughable, yet alot were just comparing it to the only thing they'd known "questing in WoW" and saying it was awesome.

Having played both, I kinda prefer GW2's method-show you where there's stuff to do and then set you loose. It feels a bit like an Elder Scrolls game where once you've moved past the starting area, you're told the next step in the story aspect and then left your own devices to go there or just wander around.

The voice-overs, while a nice touch, quickly lose their luster in non-story quests. I listened to just about all of them on the starter and capital planets and then just started hitting the spacebar because they were all variations of the same old quests found in RPGs, tailored first to Star Wars and then the specific situation. And, honestly, even the story quests were pretty boring after a bit. I finished the agent's story and was not surprised by anything that happened-it was like a Choose-Your-Own-Adventure full of spy story staples.

 Agent spoilers:

You could argue that the above is pretty much what they said it would be, but I didn't expect the story to hew so close to the template. I knew how the story would end long before that end came and nothing in between really deviated from the norm-not even slight twists on the theme. I don't know if GW2 will be a better game, but the three beta weekends I participated in have only left me wanting more, which is something I cannot say about TOR's beta weekends-the first one was fun, but the others fell flat in just about every aspect. I had to push myself to finish the story once the game went live, barely doing any quests except those pertaining to the class story on planets past Alderaan. I thought I'd pick up 50 along the way, but finished the story at 48 and felt no desire to finish those last two levels or start over with another character. Quests and story were not the only reasons I stopped playing, but they were certainly large factors in my decision.

In a matter of personal preference, I enjoy GW2's style more than a re-hashed story with little room for deviation. That doesn't necessarily make it awesome, but it's also not 'laughable', as you claim, aallya. Just a difference of opinion. camelotcrusade, I don't think TOR has raised the bar-granted, story is arguable, but systems-wise? Not in the least.

I hope you continue to enjoy your time in TOR :)