Planning to play a Shadow since the annoncement of the AC, mainly because I want to play a more traditional "cloth wearing" Jedi but still efficient with a lightsaber, I recently found myself a bit puzzled by the in depth reveal of the Consular/Shadow/Sage skill tree. Obviously the consular as a whole relies on the usage of Force powers, from a distance, but the Shadow AC, from its descriptions seems to offer a lightsaber DPS oriented role and yet we see little of that in the skills currently in game. So what do you think the Jedi Shadow will play like assuming the AC skill trees allows for a lightsaber DPS role as mentioned?
Additionnaly, I think it feels odd that a class starts (at least the 1st 10 lvls) with pretty much only range Force powers skills and slowly gain ability toward lightsaber use as you lvl after getting your AC. What do you think?
To use WoW terms, I think it'll be a mix between an Enhancement Shaman and Subtlety Rogue. While the Jedi Knight AC's will be fine jumping into the middle of a fight, the Shadow will have to rely more on burst damage and controlling enemies before striking them, whether it's through CC or stealth. It's the Smuggler to the Jedi Knight's Trooper, if that makes sense.
It is interesting that the Shadow seems to be going in the opposite direction of the Consular's progression before lvl 10, but I have a theory about that. Some developer comments give the impression that each class, before level 10, is set to "favor" one AC, but when you hit that level you have the option to go against that and try something different. A couple times devs in the past have described the Trooper and Sith Warrior "more tankish" and the Jedi Knight "more DPS" before their AC choices. This could just be marketing or misinterpreted comments, but it is interesting.
I'm suspecting, for example, that you start out with your Consular and you're kind of being trained to be a Sage, but when you hit lvl 10 you can say "this isn't for me, I'm going to learn a new weapon and train under this particular master to be a Shadow." Of course, from a gameplay perspective you're just as viable as a Sage and can use the base abilities, etc., just as easily, but your AC choice is just a different spin on it.
Quote from HarryTruman To use WoW terms, I think it'll be a mix between an Enhancement Shaman and Subtlety Rogue.
I agree.
Sounds like Shadow gameplay will be primarily melee focused with short-to-mid range casting abilities.
Perhaps another reason for the early introduction of force powers is so that even Jedi Shadow's will be familar enough with them to weave them in and out of melee abilities and for use situationally (pull adds, runners, etc.)
Indeed. We also don't know what the trainer to skill set ability ratio is. That is to say, how many abilities we learn from trainers and how many we get from our skill sets.
Thanks for your input, all good points. And I realize that the abilities are incomplete, not final and more importantly I think, only the "general" Shadow abilities; that is to say, only the abilities shared by all Shadows while within the skill trees (talents if you will) there will be plenty others to choose. The odditty that struke me, is designing a class starting full range when at some point you can choose to spec it "melee". I realize it is as soon as lvl 10 and that it doesn't take that much time to reach it, but still it feels weird. In the end I'll have to agree with you, it might make the Shadow quite versatile and I'm still really looking forward playing one.
As I said in the Live Q&A, I wouldn't get too hung up on that. Also keep in mind we have no idea how old the builds are we play at these hands-on events. If you focus on the main points of the AC Developer Blog, then you'll realize there isn't a sole cut and dry way to play a class because they made the skill sets distinct and versatile.
I speculated in the SI forum back in August that if they were going to include any sort of weapon damage stuff, then the Shadow/Assassin Advanced Class would split a la Shadowbane (or kind of like Dragon Age) into battle mage & rogue. In this theory, the difference between a Sage and a Shadow as casters would be the Sage using targeting circles for AOE from long range (and the damage abilities would have a control coefficient to them like slowing effects and whatnot), while the Shadow would be in your face AOE'ing burst direct damage.
To use WoW terms, I think it'll be a mix between an Enhancement Shaman and Subtlety Rogue. While the Jedi Knight AC's will be fine jumping into the middle of a fight, the Shadow will have to rely more on burst damage and controlling enemies before striking them, whether it's through CC or stealth.
I really hope that is so. Those are my two favorite classes though they always seemed like they could be so much more if they just had a child together. /sage nod
I really want to be a blademaster type but with enough force abilities to feel flashy. A Jedi shouldn't JUST be about light sabers but at the same time I can't imagine playing a Jedi and then NOT using my light saber hardly at all. At least not with my first character.
But mostly I love the idea of rogues in WoW but always felt like I was just hewing at wood rather than being a blade master. This wasn't helped by the fact their abilities were so "subtle" that they had no pizazz.
Enhancement Shaman + rogue yes please Bioware. Also the death grip from the Death Knight would be fun. Or maybe a shadowstep.
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Posted 12/30/2010 2:48:58 PMPlanning to play a Shadow since the annoncement of the AC, mainly because I want to play a more traditional "cloth wearing" Jedi but still efficient with a lightsaber, I recently found myself a bit puzzled by the in depth reveal of the Consular/Shadow/Sage skill tree.
Obviously the consular as a whole relies on the usage of Force powers, from a distance, but the Shadow AC, from its descriptions seems to offer a lightsaber DPS oriented role and yet we see little of that in the skills currently in game.
So what do you think the Jedi Shadow will play like assuming the AC skill trees allows for a lightsaber DPS role as mentioned?
Additionnaly, I think it feels odd that a class starts (at least the 1st 10 lvls) with pretty much only range Force powers skills and slowly gain ability toward lightsaber use as you lvl after getting your AC.
What do you think?
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Posted 12/30/2010 4:22:45 PMTo use WoW terms, I think it'll be a mix between an Enhancement Shaman and Subtlety Rogue. While the Jedi Knight AC's will be fine jumping into the middle of a fight, the Shadow will have to rely more on burst damage and controlling enemies before striking them, whether it's through CC or stealth. It's the Smuggler to the Jedi Knight's Trooper, if that makes sense.
It is interesting that the Shadow seems to be going in the opposite direction of the Consular's progression before lvl 10, but I have a theory about that. Some developer comments give the impression that each class, before level 10, is set to "favor" one AC, but when you hit that level you have the option to go against that and try something different. A couple times devs in the past have described the Trooper and Sith Warrior "more tankish" and the Jedi Knight "more DPS" before their AC choices. This could just be marketing or misinterpreted comments, but it is interesting.
I'm suspecting, for example, that you start out with your Consular and you're kind of being trained to be a Sage, but when you hit lvl 10 you can say "this isn't for me, I'm going to learn a new weapon and train under this particular master to be a Shadow." Of course, from a gameplay perspective you're just as viable as a Sage and can use the base abilities, etc., just as easily, but your AC choice is just a different spin on it.
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Posted 12/31/2010 6:14:31 AMI agree.
Sounds like Shadow gameplay will be primarily melee focused with short-to-mid range casting abilities.
Perhaps another reason for the early introduction of force powers is so that even Jedi Shadow's will be familar enough with them to weave them in and out of melee abilities and for use situationally (pull adds, runners, etc.)
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Posted 1/4/2011 9:47:28 PMKeep in mind the list of abilities for the Shadow isn't complete or final.
Compare the number of trainer abilities of the Jedi Sentinel to the Jedi Shadow.
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Posted 1/5/2011 7:24:04 AMIndeed. We also don't know what the trainer to skill set ability ratio is. That is to say, how many abilities we learn from trainers and how many we get from our skill sets.
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Posted 1/5/2011 4:58:28 PMThanks for your input, all good points.
And I realize that the abilities are incomplete, not final and more importantly I think, only the "general" Shadow abilities; that is to say, only the abilities shared by all Shadows while within the skill trees (talents if you will) there will be plenty others to choose.
The odditty that struke me, is designing a class starting full range when at some point you can choose to spec it "melee". I realize it is as soon as lvl 10 and that it doesn't take that much time to reach it, but still it feels weird.
In the end I'll have to agree with you, it might make the Shadow quite versatile and I'm still really looking forward playing one.
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Posted 1/5/2011 7:55:07 PMAs I said in the Live Q&A, I wouldn't get too hung up on that. Also keep in mind we have no idea how old the builds are we play at these hands-on events. If you focus on the main points of the AC Developer Blog, then you'll realize there isn't a sole cut and dry way to play a class because they made the skill sets distinct and versatile.
I speculated in the SI forum back in August that if they were going to include any sort of weapon damage stuff, then the Shadow/Assassin Advanced Class would split a la Shadowbane (or kind of like Dragon Age) into battle mage & rogue. In this theory, the difference between a Sage and a Shadow as casters would be the Sage using targeting circles for AOE from long range (and the damage abilities would have a control coefficient to them like slowing effects and whatnot), while the Shadow would be in your face AOE'ing burst direct damage.
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Posted 8/4/2011 1:04:17 AMI really hope that is so. Those are my two favorite classes though they always seemed like they could be so much more if they just had a child together. /sage nod
I really want to be a blademaster type but with enough force abilities to feel flashy. A Jedi shouldn't JUST be about light sabers but at the same time I can't imagine playing a Jedi and then NOT using my light saber hardly at all. At least not with my first character.
But mostly I love the idea of rogues in WoW but always felt like I was just hewing at wood rather than being a blade master. This wasn't helped by the fact their abilities were so "subtle" that they had no pizazz.
Enhancement Shaman + rogue yes please Bioware. Also the death grip from the Death Knight would be fun. Or maybe a shadowstep.