Darth Hater Forums

Single Wielding Sentinel

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  • #1 HarryTruman

    Darth Hater has cleverly noticed this image in the new Taral V video that shows a lightly armored Jedi Knight using a single lightsaber.  As many have pointed out, it begs the question as to why a high level Guardian would go without its distinctive armor (a proficiency you get when you choose that AC).  The two competing explanations is that either it's a Guardian in a DPS spec (with perhaps some armor restriction in that tree) or a Sentinel using a single lightsaber.  While alone, it's hard to decide either way which is more likely, there's some other evidence that leads me to believe that it's probably a Sentinel.

    First, we can start with a quote from Sean Dalhberg from a while back:

    As a Marauder or Sentinel your are not forced to use two lightsabers. It may make a benefit in certain areas to use two, maybe not.
    http://swtor.onlinewelten.com/articles,id586,0,gamescom_2010_interview_sean_dahlberg.html

    Now you might say that he didn't explicitly say single-wielding offered competitive DPS, and that he might have just been talking about roleplaying.  But remember, the devs aren't shy about telling us when players would be gimping themselves.  In that recent interview with Zoeller, when asked about whether Jedi Sages could go without lightsabers, he essentially said 'yes, but you'd be gimping yourself.'  Such is not the case in Dalhberg's interview on that site.

    Second, there's this image, taken from the TOR combat video a few months ago: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v353/JG_overseer13/watchthis.png

    On the right is a Jedi Sentinel using a single lightsaber, with his secondary one equipped to his hilt.  This begs the question:  why offer Sentinels such a specific configuration (one that wasn't present in KOTOR or any SW game I can think of, actually) if single-wielding for them wasn't incorporated into the AC?

    Third, in Darth Hater's list of Jedi Knight abilities, it's interesting to note two things: that dual-wielding has a damage and accuracy penalty and that not all Sentinel abilities require dual-wielding.  If single-wielding was never a viable choice for the Sentinel, then reason would dictate that you might as well make all Sentinel abilities require that configuration.  There's really no point in making some optional if the Sentinel's not meant for it.  And why mention the damage/accuracy penalty in every tooltip if there's no other weapon option?  The most reasonable explanation is that Sentinels do in fact have the option to use a single lightsaber, with advantages and disadvantages attached to it.

    Fourth, when the AC names were announced, the Jedi Sentinel's play style is described as "saber fighting specialist."  While not direct evidence of anything, coupled with the above, I think that this suggests that the Sentinel will always focus specifically on lightsaber combat, which to me would include both dual wielding and non-dual wielding.  They seem to have access to more lightsaber forms than the Guardian, including Juyo, which Mace Windu always used with a single lightsaber.

    All this evidence leads me to conclude that Sentinels can in fact single-wield effectively, and that single lightsaber usage is in fact incorporated into the abilities and build of that AC.  I don't believe this will step on the toes of the Guardian, as both will likely be achieving DPS in very different ways.  The spread may go something like this:

    Guardian (armor, single lightsaber)
    Tanking Spec - Energy shields, party buffs
    DPS Spec - Caster/Debuffer, similar to a WoW Paladin in its style of melee DPS

    The Guardian may be stylistically more like Kenobi from the Clone Wars, a natural leader, armored and more defensive overall.  Its DPS spec will probably be more Force-based than the Sentinel, relying on its buffs like a Paladin to increase weapon damage.

    Sentinel (medium armor, single or dual wield)
    AOE DPS - dual wielding
    Single Target DPS - dual or single wielding

    The Sentinel may be that "Mace Windu" class in that it focuses entirely on exploring different lightsaber styles and attacks.  It'll probably have more overall DPS than the Guardian, but with very little group utility.  If you're into the different lightsaber forms and having variety in that type of combat, the Sentinel may be specialized for it.

  • #2 Raeth

    I do remember seeing something that lent a few hints regarding dual-wielding. I think it was the Sentinel from Jedi Immersion Day. Basically by dual-wielding, the Sentinel opened up an ability to strike with both weapons, for higher damage but lower accuracy. Oh, I see you covered that point.

    Personally, I think the Min/Maxxers out there are going to have to dual-wield, but for flavour, while soloing or PUG'ing, they could choose to use a single.

  • #3 HarryTruman

    Possibly, but I think if single-wielding was inherently inferior when filling the only role the Sentinels can fill (DPS) the devs wouldn't have it in the AC at all.  I think it's more likely that single wielding either offers simply a different type of DPS (single target vs. AOE) or lower DPS but coupled with utility (buffs, CC, etc.).  Both of those are very common in MMO DPS classes.

  • #4 effey16

    Quote from HarryTruman
    Possibly, but I think if single-wielding was inherently inferior when filling the only role the Sentinels can fill (DPS) the devs wouldn't have it in the AC at all.  I think it's more likely that single wielding either offers simply a different type of DPS (single target vs. AOE) or lower DPS but coupled with utility (buffs, CC, etc.).  Both of those are very common in MMO DPS classes.

    But lower DPS with utility is basically what the guardian is supposed to be

  • #5 Raeth

    To really be single target vs. AOE, there will probably be a need for abilities that only work while wielding a single blade. If so, to get the most out of the Sentinel, you're going to require the player to switch from single to dual depending on the encounter. I think that is a poor decision if it happens.

  • #6 HarryTruman

    Quote from effey16
    Quote from HarryTruman
    Possibly, but I think if single-wielding was inherently inferior when filling the only role the Sentinels can fill (DPS) the devs wouldn't have it in the AC at all.  I think it's more likely that single wielding either offers simply a different type of DPS (single target vs. AOE) or lower DPS but coupled with utility (buffs, CC, etc.).  Both of those are very common in MMO DPS classes.

    But lower DPS with utility is basically what the guardian is supposed to be

    Well no, we don't actually know that.  Zoeller said that the Guardian could do competitive DPS; that's all we know.

    In any case, all the DPS specs will probably have some utility, some more than others.  Look at the Smuggler.  The Scoundrel has Stealth DPS (damage with utility), while the Gunslinger has a DPS spec and another damage spec with utility (buffs).  Just because both AC's have a DPS+Utility role doesn't mean they're the same.  The Guardian could have a DPS+Utility spec that's totally different from a Sentinel one.  Utility can mean all sorts of things.

  • #7 Thyrshol

    Maybe he just hasnt unlocked dual wield yet.

  • #8 HarryTruman

    Nah, he's level 32.  You learn dual-wielding at 10.

  • #9 Socrates

    Maybe they are going to shove healing into the Sentinel AC?

  • #10 Gerran

    Could be that the JS deals damage and through his damage he heals the party. Only question is...how he heals it? with HoTs?
    I gave it a bit more thought and got this: What we know is that Guardians deal competitive damage. We dont know how, though. So I'll just speculate here: What if the guardian deals dps differently, by using his defense? For example an ability that allows his to deflect damage and return it to the attacker? Ofcourse this is only one ability, there could be other styles as well...

    I think, though, that if it indeed it was a JG, wouldnt they put him in heavy armor to make the distinction? Or even use a different medium armor at least...I don't know. The waters are too muddy to actually make any claim. I wish the devs would cast some light in the discussion in the official forums, but...nothing.

  • #11 permacrete

    Another point in favor of the Sentinel is that apparently the exact same Knight character was shown in the War Zone video having a bit of a PvP on Alderaan.  In that video the same Knight (male, Zabrak, absolutely identical gear) is shown with two lightsabers.

    Considering the care that BioWare seems to put into their videos, if this was intended to depict a damage-spec Guardian, wouldn't BioWare have used a new character rather than recreating an existing Sentinel for that role?  Certainly they like to play their cards close to their vest, but I can't remember them ever intentionally misleading us.

  • #12 Gerran

    Check these three images:

    Notice anything peculiar? Yes....Sith Warrior single wielding AND dual wielding. So really what gives Bioware????

  • #13 HarryTruman

    WELL DONE, Gerran!  I think this clenches it.

  • #14 Gerran

    Yea harry, Im sure many will wince come launch day ;)

  • #15 HarryTruman

    You know, from all the examples we've seen I'm starting to get the impression that the difference between single and dual-wielding for the Sentinel/Marauder may not be one of builds, but of a fighting style.  What I mean is that one Sentinel skill set may actually involve switching between the two in a fight.  If the animations actually leave a saber hilt at your side when you're single-wielding, they may be intended to always be equipped and then pulled out when you're doing a particular move.  That would be pretty slick.

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