Darth Hater

I played a vanguard to around level 20 in the stress test beta weekends. Really found the class quite enjoyable, once you figure out the ammo regen thing and get used to the idea of every pull being a minimum of 3 mobs its a very effective tanking class.

I did notice problems with some things in the build that was avalible for stress testing however. First and foremost was a lack of core tanking abilities early in the game, particularly survivability abilities. Still thats not unexpected in an early build of a MMO, from what I understand there really wasn't that much early game content where a tank would be neccessary until relatively recently.

The bigger issue was the crispness of the animations for alot of our aoe and grenade abilities. I noticed it less with things like hammer shot and Ion Pulse but for Mortar Volley in particular there was a huge animation delay before the shots actually started going off. For a game that otherwise has really captured a visceral feeling combat system by increasing the average pull size and lowering enemy health, this seems like a pretty huge problem.

In the end I am trying to reach out to the other people who tested this class in greater depth particularly on later builds hoping that you can give us all some insight in what has already been fixed as well as what we can still expect as far as errors and issues during the launch.

Thanks and I look forward to seeing these posts!

I probably can't add a lot to this discussion.  I got up to level 30 in the 2nd last beta weekend.

Early tanking is a little tricky, especially since you're first companion is a DPS.  I also can't remember when you get Ion Cell, but that's obviously a pivotal talent that allows you to tank.

Mortar Volley is a channeled ability, so I don't think there are any animation problems there.  I believe this is working as intended.

I don't actually expect any errors during launch, or remember any big issues that needed to be fixed.  I found the level and gear progression smooth to level 30, and the group content could be easily done with two players and two companions.

One mental note I made, was to unlock Elara as fast as possible, since she is the healer companion.  You get her at the conclusion of the Class story arc on Taris.  As a Vanguard, I found the healer drastically more useful than a DPS.  I can't emphasize this point enough.

The animation issue with Mortar Volley was more that the channel did not seem to start until you had done the "set up" animation. Half the channel bar had gone by while you waited for the first shot. Still as you say that may be intentional.

I didn't make it to the first healer companion, but that certainly would have been a bonus. I found myself able to solo quite a bit of group content with my dps companion. So maybe the lack of early damage mitigation will be offset by that second companion

You can also use your ship droid to heal once you get them.

Once you get a healer for backup, your survivability goes through the roof.  I was able to do Heroic 2+ content by myself.  It was inefficiently slow, but the fact that I could do it without risk illustrates the point.  I definately felt like that was a milestone in my progression.

If you are a healing spec, you probably have that same experience when you get MX-A1 or whatever his name is.  He's the tank companion.  Since I was a tank myself, I never used him for anything but novelty.

By the time I realized you could use your protocol droid as a healer, I already had Elara.  I'll be testing the viability of that in release for sure.

Is this discussion about tanking as Trooper or abuot the Vanguard AC on a whole? It seems there is a bit back and forth assumptions, and that leaves me confused since i haven't actually played the class, but intend to go Vanguard at some point.

I found vanguard pretty poor for PVE (flashpoints) until level 15 or so as there really aren't any good tanking skills given to you until then. The fact that we are given a dps companion first (vs BH's getting a healer) is a disadvantage.

Once you get your ship (between 15-19 depending on if you focus on class quests) you can take the ships robot as a companion healer and things go along nicely. Unfortunately that companion starts with no upgrades and don't benefit from decision choices.. That may not matter much though.

PVP also felt subpar on this toon early on (under level 20), I didn't feel I was really able to make an impact compared to how useful I was when on my healer at only level 10-12.. DPS is ok but didnt feel terribly strong, survivability also was weak (under 20).

Vanguard is very mobile however (compared to commando) which I like alot, I like being able to move and attack.

When you get Harpoon in your early 20s all bets are off. By this point you've finally got a bit of survivability and a nice CC. Being able to pull the Huttball flag carrier from nearly scoring into a wall of fire is pretty epic and has got to piss people off :)

Sounds like it would be relatively fair to say that the Vanguard doesn't really get defined as a class until leve 20. Is that true across the board or is it an issue unique to troopers?

Well.. by role, the two healers I played (Jedi Sage and IA.. eh. the healy IA) just felt very fresh at 10-12. Between 1-9 you had 0 heals, suddenly you get 1 and your second shortly after.

With the two tanks I played, after picking my AC I'm still looking at a toon that plays the same as he did the first 10 levels, I didn't get any "Oh wow" feelings from new skills/abilities.

I think with Troopers it's especially bad because you don't have a healer companion, and feel squishy because you don't have any shield skills yet. You do get a shield generator to equip that (as I recall) reduces damage by 20% but it's still pretty easy to die as you don't have any cc to escap e a fight if need be.

Again, though, I really started to enjoy the class around 22, harpoon and being able to be so mobile on the battlefield (compared to others) made things fun.

I agree with this.

As mentioned earlier, Ion Cell is the turning point for tanking.  I believe the shield chance is only 5% when not using Ion Cell (ie: DPS mode).

I also started enjoying the class a lot more around level 20, so I totally understand that viewpoint.  When you can grapple pull things to you, taser them to get instant aggro, shield another player, slam your butt-stock into their head, shoot a cone of electricity, trigger an AoE explosion, and fire off an assortment of grenades and special weapon shots, the class is just more fun to play.  Controling the flow and rhythm of combat as the main tank, is a fun play style for me.

As with all MMO's, you can only make fair comparisons at end game.  Things can change significantly during level progression.  Prior to level 20, you don't really have an impression of the class.  Having said that, I liked Trooper and see Vanguard as a very viable and enjoyable tank role.