Darth Hater

Does the hidden strike stun still fully fill the resolve bar?

so the operative nerf patch is out now?

are they like what everyone was saying,meaning they were gonna be awful in pvp or are they not as bad as people were saying now

My buddy is an op and says he can barely tell a difference. He cant drop tanks like he could before tho; they often have time to stand up and kick his ass.

From the official forums, HS/JS now fills resolve ~50%, so you could go directly into a debilitate.

As to how well you do, op is now 100% gear based, you will need huge crit/surge to be able to deal with anyone in the opener, as that's your only chance to get them within 'controlable' kill range, and forget about healers if they survive your new openers =\ With no huge damage outside of stealth and gross lack of defensive abilities, you will need to run with a buddy or target people < 50% health with a drained resolve bar.

What op pvp dps desperatly needs now is a gap closer in concleament, and unpurgable dots in lethality. 

I got up to ~v33 post 50 w/ 5 champion pieces pre nerf, my highest crit ever on a cloth was 5200 w/ relics and adrenals, but if they managed to get up and survive after that, there isn't a thing you can do to a semi-competant player. Having a melee DPS with zero ways to gap close is crazy fail now that the initial burst is gone

hmm well

lets just say this.if i wanted a "rogue like" melee dps class.what would be better to go with now that the operative nerfs gone thru a deception spec assassin or a concealment spec operative

 i know when i was lookin at assassin skills they seemed to have a gap closing ability.but i dont know,operatives looked the more "rogue like" of the two

Crunk you speak like Operative isn't viable since it got a nerf. Don't be like that, with "rerolling a new fotm every time there's a nerf". I'm sure Operative is still very viable.

I just got through the lvl 50 pvp daily (3 wins) over 4 matches. My spec. I have 5 champion pieces (enforcer legs, medic hat, enforcer implant x1, crit/power relic x1, and offhand (forget which version)), columni medic wrist, the rest is full purple mod gear. I am biochem, havn't gotten a purple adrenal yet =x and generally run w/ rakata cunning stim. I am sitting at ~14500 hp. I consider myself a little above average as far as pvp goes.

Here's some summary:

Ex 1: 100% cloth w/ no support: 'basically' the same just takes about 2-3 gcd longer.

Ex 2: 100% heavy w/ no support: takes a long time, not worth it. You really notice the nerf to acid blade here.

Ex 3: 100% medium w/ no support: simillar to cloth, possibly another 1-2 gcd above that.

The days are gone for most ops of downing someone that has any modicum of support w/o blowing cooldowns. Biggest hint here is to judiciously use flash bang.

Of course the best success now lies with one of two paths: staying w/ the group and hit soft targets (<70% or light armor), or playing more slowly and culling the herd of people < 70% (which of course worked very well before). Biggest thing to keep in mind is that you aren't a lone wolf anymore.

As far as damage goes, pre patch I was 250k+ most of the time, occasionally 300k. The 4 games tonight (minus one 3min huttball), I was around 220k. I could probably get closer to 250k again but I was playing it cool and disengaging if I spotted a better target (enemy nameplates is highly recommended).

Now, for the higher geared players, they will probably see a larger decrease in damage, but again I'm not any elite pvper by any stretch.

I personally think there is nothing wrong with them now. as a shadow tank with 400 exp. and pushing 40% DR (22 or 21% elem intern) I still lose over 40% health from their opening salvo, my guildie, who pretty much has the same gear, but plays as infil, is hit by 58-66% of his health on average. they just hit lower on things like juggs/knights like all the rest of us do. I know that one of the best scoundrels on my server, who i do wz's ilum regularly said he even liked the change, due to the possibility of longer stun times, and this separating good SC from bad ones, who don't know what to do when people arent nearly dead from opener.

Quote from CrunkJuice4 »

hmm well

lets just say this.if i wanted a "rogue like" melee dps class.what would be better to go with now that the operative nerfs gone thru a deception spec assassin or a concealment spec operative

 i know when i was lookin at assassin skills they seemed to have a gap closing ability.but i dont know,operatives looked the more "rogue like" of the two

 

 

There's not much gap closing as a Deception-Assassin.

I have one myself and apart from Force Slow, Electrocute and Force Speed there's nothing to close a gap.

If he gets away from you he's usually gone for good.

Ok, I had a big post that got swallowed it seems. Here's a slightly shorter version.

Stats: v33, 5 champ pieces (pants, head, implant, relic (crit/surge), offhand), 1 columni piece (bracer), rest moddable items w/ daily purple lvl 49 mods, second implant purple mastercraft, ear: blue mastercraft. HP: ~14500. Biochem w/ rakata cunning stim. I haven't gotten a reusable adrenal yet so use the pvp ones occasionally. Skill wise I'd say I'm a above average, I'm not an expert by any means. Spec.

4 huttball matches

Match 1 stats: Unknown, scoreboard didn't show any numbers (I joined late) ~4 medals 800 valor (loss)

Match 2 stats: 225k damage, ~1k valor, ~6 medals (win)

Match 3 stats: 79k damage, ~600 valor, 3 medals (win but it was a ~4-5min game)

Match 4 stats: 225k damage, ~1100 valor, ~6 medals (win)

1v1 'feelings' (I didn't take notes, but this is how it felt)

1v1 vs. light armor: takes 2-3 gcd longer

1v1 vs. medium armor: takes 4-5 gcd longer

1v1 vs. heavy armor: not worth the trouble takes way too long due to acid blade nerf

Best personal strategies:

1) Stay with the group and pick out light armor, or medium armor < 70%. Only pick heavy armor if nothing else

2) Stay behind group and pick off anyone < 60% health with at least 1/2 resovle bar unfilled

What doesn't work anymore: complete lone wolf, sure it was fun but hey, it is a team situation anyway ;d

Other notes: The root from sever tendon is now very useful. 

Pre-nerf stats:

Highest HS crit: ~5200 on light

Usual damage during a long game: 250k-300k

Post-nerf stats:

Highest HS crit: ~3600 on light

Usual damage during a long game: 225k (granted, only was in 2 long games, but both were around that level).

What dps ops need:

A gap closer. This is now the #1 biggest issue, I can live with the nerfs in pvp (pve my verdict is still out, didn't do any last night, but I'm guessing it will be much more noticable) but having no way to close the gap is now very evident.

A better 3rd tree: Lethality needs some other method of gaining TA, and something to either make their dots unpurgable, or resistant to purge.

Quote from schnopsnosn »

Quote from CrunkJuice4 »

hmm well

lets just say this.if i wanted a "rogue like" melee dps class.what would be better to go with now that the operative nerfs gone thru a deception spec assassin or a concealment spec operative

 i know when i was lookin at assassin skills they seemed to have a gap closing ability.but i dont know,operatives looked the more "rogue like" of the two

 

 

There's not much gap closing as a Deception-Assassin.

I have one myself and apart from Force Slow, Electrocute and Force Speed there's nothing to close a gap.

If he gets away from you he's usually gone for good.

You do know that ops have only 1 way to close gap right? and it requires 10m range.

After completing the pvp daily here's my take:

Stats: v33, 5 champion (legs, head, implant, relic (crit/surge), offhand), 1 columni (bracer), mastercraft purple implant, mastercraft blue ear, rest is lvl 49 purple modded gear. Biochem w/ rakata cunning stim. Use pvp adrenals. Talents. I'd say I'm above average skill, no expert, but not a derp derp.

Pre-nerf in a long game I was usually around 250-300k damage, and 5-8 medals. highest light armor crit w/ relics, adrenal was 5200

Played 4 huttball:

1: no stats the scoreboard bugged, ~600 valor, ~4 medals

2: 225k damage, ~6 medals, ~1200 valor

3: 79k damage, ~3 medals, ~800 valor (~5min game)

4: 225k damage, ~6 medals, ~1100 valor

Highest HS crit on light armor w/ click and adrenals: ~3600

1v1 thoughts: (I engaged at least one of each armor type while they were well away from the pack and had no support)

light armor: ~2-3 gcd longer, if you knew how to engage them before, its the same

medium armor: ~4-5 gcd longer, have to be a little smarter w/ resolve

heavy armor: not worth it at all. You really feel the acid blade nerf here.

Best tactics: Stay with the group and go after light armor, or medium armor < 70%. Stay slightly behind the group and play cleanup.

What doesn't work: lone wolf, join the pack!

Pre-launch, wasn't BioWare saying that pvp in TOR isn't mean to be lonewolfed, that you need to attack other players as groups? If anything, the nerf sounds like it does that then.

No idea what their methodology is (the silly interview about some mythic number system notwithstanding), but the general goal is that any class should be as likly as any other to be used in that group if that group was chosen instead of random. Does this nerf affect this? I don't really think it does in the pvp world, yes damage is reduced by ~15% overall (from my observation only), and ops have no way to move people. I think the later issue is much more problematic now that the damage has been brought down. IA as a whole need some gap operner/closer that works on players.

I didn't do any PvE last night, but my gut going off of the pvp setting is that pve will have taken a much larger hit, and those interviews from the devs aren't comforting in the least, as they basically treat pve as an afterthought as far as balancing classes goes. Which may be ok if the game was more pvp focused, and had a large amount of pvp content, but it isn't and it doesn't. US mmo's live and die by the end game PvE, and radically altering the damage output of a dps class this close from launch w/o any regard to pve isn't promising.

" lone wolf, join the pack!"

ive always hated pvping in big blob zerg groups,i perfer pvping alone

guess ill just chalk it up to another stupid descision made by mythic