Darth Hater

I was planning on play the marauder because I thought it would be the highest melee DPS (i always play dps melee). Now it seems that may be in question.

The SI Assassin has lighter armor and stealth, this screams rouge to me since it is melee centric. So to use other MMO designs as an example... usually the squishier the class, the more damage they do. This way their dps output compensates them for their survivability. Since the SW Marauder can use medium armor and cannot stealth I am guessing they will be more durable, aka fury warrior. Does this translate to less DPS?

I love to spreadsheet and min max my chars, and I want to be the highest melee DPS.  Will the Marauder damage path be what I am looking for?  Or with this new info on the SI Assassin, am I now looking at playing a fury warrior (Marauder) instead of the higher DPS rogue class (Assassin).

Here is some info Bioware has posted on the classes.

Sith Marauder
Dual Wield Sabers / Armor
Saber fighting specialist
Melee DPS

"Never hesitating, never faltering, there is no swifter bringer
of pain and damage in the galaxy."  -Advanced class page

Sith Assassin
Double Bladed Saber
Stealth
Burst Melee DPS

No advanced class page, =(

Melee DPS vs Burst Melee DPS just means the Sith Assassin's DPS is front stacked. It doesn't mean that the Sith Marauder will do more damage overall. In fact, it seems unlikely that a series of short fights (of the sort TOR intends to have) would favour non-burst DPS. Of course if the burst damage doesn't carry over from target to target (if it builds up in the way that say, Rogue combo points do in WoW) then it might mean if the Assassin fails to deliver that mega blow prior to death they will lose out on overall DPS.

Ya I can see your point in a drawn out PvE encounter, target switching and combo point managment was always tricky in WoW.  In PvP though burst usually rules.

Using other games as an example:  The squishier the class the more dmg they can do, burst or sustained.  The WoW rogue could spec to front load their dmg or sustain it.  They were always top DPS in non-AoE situations.  My concern is that the Assassin will follow this paradigm.  I really wanted to play a more in your face character vs stealthy, but i am a min/maxer and want to do the most DPS.

The "most" dps being a concern would turn the game into a different monster. Many mmo's aren't so min/max centric and while raiding contact or even endgame hasn't been tested its not possible to tell exactly how all this would pan out. Using WoW as an example right now at near BiS gear for ICC most melee classes are within 5% of eachother with some situations like tricks of the trade or length of the fight favoring some over others. If bioware intends on the game being min/max they cannot afford to do what wow did early on and basically relegate some classes to just being worse due to the "hybrid" tax. I would assume that the game will eventually be well balanced and every class will have a place and do reasonable damage.

That being said I think a larger concern to draw your attention to would be the very nature of the fights and mana vs rage. If your job is to kill mobs which are dying fast you may not have the time to build rage to do anything where as mana would start full and you would be able to attack immidately. Now mana could run out while rage would cap eventually so maybe in a longer fight rage would do better but in short bursty ones mana should likely be king. Unless the mana classes need build up time by stacking a buff, combo points or what have you.

You never really can go wrong by playing the class you want to play though if it turns out that the SW is really bad dps and you don't want to tank rerolling shouldn't be as big of an issue since each class will have a unique story so the leveling should be more interesting atleast.

I see Assassin doing more dmg on one target while Marauder does more on groups, pretty similar to Berserk and Assassin in EQ2.

I question your choice of character being based solely on DPS. But each to their own. Unfortunately though, you're not going to know the answer to this until a while after the game launches. You may be better off starting a character of each of those classes.

I haven't yet seen ability comparisons of both Sith Warrior and Inquisitor, but I can see the Assassin being capable of AoE, as I picture Maul going sick with acrobatic kicks and so on.

Since we know nothing about raids yet, it's hard to say which will be the higher DPS. We don't even know if raids will be as specialized as they are in WoW, where there are designated "damage dealers, healers and tanks". From what we've heard from the Devs, in order to achieve the "heroic gameplay" they're aiming for, people won't be sitting there doing only one role, I see each class having multiple roles. For instance, the healers might be doing DPS until someone needs a heal, and the DPS will be able to heal when needed. I'd like the game to work this way, because 25 people beating on one big boss does not feel heroic in the slightest.

Quote from TwoHearted

"Never hesitating, never faltering, there is no swifter bringer
of pain and damage in the galaxy."  -Advanced class page

Where are you seeing this quote? I'm not seeing it on the Sith Warrior specialization page.

Quote from RhanBraxis
Since we know nothing about raids yet, it's hard to say which will be the higher DPS. We don't even know if raids will be as specialized as they are in WoW, where there are designated "damage dealers, healers and tanks". From what we've heard from the Devs, in order to achieve the "heroic gameplay" they're aiming for, people won't be sitting there doing only one role, I see each class having multiple roles. For instance, the healers might be doing DPS until someone needs a heal, and the DPS will be able to heal when needed. I'd like the game to work this way, because 25 people beating on one big boss does not feel heroic in the slightest.

If that's true, then it stands to reason that the Marauder will need to 'Tank' at times. I think this is likely, and I have no problem with it. Really it probably means you'll act like a bodyguard at times, protecting the IA or SI if they get into too much trouble with adds.

Quote from Malevolence

Quote from TwoHearted

"Never hesitating, never faltering, there is no swifter bringer
of pain and damage in the galaxy."  -Advanced class page

Where are you seeing this quote? I'm not seeing it on the Sith Warrior specialization page.

Go to this link...   http://www.swtor.com/info/holonet/classes/sith-warrior

Then click on specializations, then marauder, profit.

Quote from Raeth

Quote from RhanBraxis
Since we know nothing about raids yet, it's hard to say which will be the higher DPS. We don't even know if raids will be as specialized as they are in WoW, where there are designated "damage dealers, healers and tanks". From what we've heard from the Devs, in order to achieve the "heroic gameplay" they're aiming for, people won't be sitting there doing only one role, I see each class having multiple roles. For instance, the healers might be doing DPS until someone needs a heal, and the DPS will be able to heal when needed. I'd like the game to work this way, because 25 people beating on one big boss does not feel heroic in the slightest.

If that's true, then it stands to reason that the Marauder will need to 'Tank' at times. I think this is likely, and I have no problem with it. Really it probably means you'll act like a bodyguard at times, protecting the IA or SI if they get into too much trouble with adds.

It actually looks to me like the marauder is shaping up to be a glass cannon.  To counter the lack of heavy armor, no stealth, no major healing abilities, and no ranged dps (or at least minimal), they will have to get on a target and burn it down.  They seem to have minimal defensive and group buffing abilities but maximum dmg.  Marauder is screaming rogue to me minus the stealth...  but if i remember correctly the stealth classes in this game are actually healers lol, or at least seem to have a much wider array of skills (range, healing etc.).  Marauder is just an in your face dps machine.

Nah, I don't think so.  They've said that in every situation, the SW is always going to have more armor than the Inquisitor, even when it's the Marauder.  The Sith Assassin's going to be where you get your squishy Rogue build.  Since the Assassin's the SI's "DPS" route, there's almost certainly a non-stealth option for pure damage.

Also, just a minor point, an "in your face DPS machine" wouldn't be a "glass cannon," since it implies that the class has to be at the forefront of combat and thus able to take a few hits.  Glass cannons are almost always ranged, and if not they use stealth.

Sith Assassins will be using stealth...

As for the Marauder possibly being a glass cannon... don't be silly... zero % chance of that.

A previous post in the SI section covers my thoughts on this;

Posted on June 22nd, 2010 at 3:41 PM
http://darthhater.com/profile/HarryTruman did a great job of including the recent quotes from the James Ohlen interview in his OP, and from those it's abundantly clear that there is an AC of the SI that will specifically focus on the use of the Saberstaff - the so called "Darth Maul" AC. This has caused some confusion and consternation, and was a hottly debated topic even prior to the James Ohlen interview. There are quite a few folks out there who seem to think of this as a repeating of the same "style" of character as the SW's Marauder AC (the "dps" AC of the SW that dual wields lightsabers as opposed to using the saberstaff.) I'd like to make a case for why I don't think this is so...

Referring to the DH dissection of the Designing the Darkside video http://darthhater.com/2009/12/30/dissected-designing-the-dark-side-video and specifically to the part of that video that takes a little closer look at some of the SI skills shown on one of the characters in it http://darthhater.com/dsdark/siskills.png there are three (3) skills I'd like to draw attention to; the Backlash, Vicious Saber, and Discharge skills.
The Backlash skill (which is a damage soaker) will prove useful regardless of whether you are in melee or range combat, but it does have a component that is specifically for melee. It simultaneously makes the lightly armored SI quite a bit more resilient for a short time, but also damages any enemies that are attacking the SI with melee attacks.

While that ability has obvious uses for a more melee oriented SI, the next two are the ones that really lend some insight into the exact nature of the melee SI. The Vicious Saber, and Discharge skills are the ones that lead me to believe that the SI character we see in that video is likely beginning his journey on the "Darth Maul" path. Both skills specifically state that they must be used in conjunction with a Saberstaff. (I'm referring to a "double-bladed lightsaber" as a saberstaff for both brevity and clarity.) We know from the James Ohlen interview that the saberstaff is specifically associated with the "Darth Maul" AC of the SI, and so we can assume that since both of these skills require that weapon's use, then they are also both associated with the DM AC of the SI.

Of particular interest to me is the fact that the Vicious Saber and Discharge skills both seem to focus on "channeling the Force" through the saberstaff weapon. In the Designing the Darkside video, one of the contrasts that are drawn between the SW and the SI is that the SW tends to use the Force to imbue "himself" with greater rage and power - "making more forceful and powerful attacks" whereas the SI uses the Force as a direct means of attack. Although that quote is referring to the SI "Palpatine" build IMO, the essence of the idea still holds true for the Darth Maul AC as well.

I am also reminded of another quote from a Dev (not positive which one it was...sorry) that basically said that the ACs will "modify" the original Core Class but a SW is still a SW, whether he/she goes Juggernaut or Marauder. So, in the case of comparing a Marauder to the SI DM what you have is a Tank/DPS class that leaned more towards the DPS side but still retains many of it's Tank side qualities in the Marauder, while the SI DM is a Healer-Caster/DPS class that has leaned more towards the DPS side but still retains many of it's Healer-Caster qualities.
The SI DM will be more about fluidity of movement in ligher armor, and will very much be a "Melee Caster." They will channel the Force into their weapon (the saberstaff) and will very much still be reliant on the use of the Force primarily. Where the Palpatine SI will be more likely to channel the Force for manipulation of the environment and others in it, the Darth Maul will be channeling the Force for a slightly more direct means of damage through their weapon, and also to protect themselves with damage shields.

In contrast, the SW Marauder will be more about using their "rage" to imbue their attacks with greater power, and will be much less concerned with manipulating the environment, or their weapon. They will be DPS, and they will be in (slightly) lighter armor than their Juggernaut counterparts, but they will still shrug off hits and damage much more readily than any SI would. Where a Juggernaut is the bulldozer, the Marauder will be the cuisinart - both will tend to "plow" into the fray. No SI (even a melee oriented one) is gonna be doing any "plowing." And all SIs will be very much "casters" even when the casting they are doing is directly on their weapon.

I believe the DM AC of the SI will be the more DPS oriented of the two ACs, focusing their casting on increasing their damage (both through their weapon and otherwise) while the Palpatine AC of the SI will be more about manipulation of the environment and those in it. The Palpatine SI will almost certainly be the one more capable of healing others, but the Darth Maul AC may be more proficient at healing themselves. The Palpatine SI will most likely be more adept at various forms of CC from a distance as well, while the DM SI will be more focused on killing even faster to eliminate the need for CC.

In summary, I think the SW DPS class is very much a warrior still, with heavier armor, still capable of "off-tanking" and dual wielding sabers (which makes possible such nasty things as a "double impale") who uses the Force to strenghten himself, and whose fighting style will be very similar to his SW origins - just with higher octane.
While the SI DPS class is very much a caster still, using much lighter armor, still capable of "off-healing" and imbuing his saberstaff directly with the Force, vastly increasing it's damage dealing potential, and allowing him to stay more mobile to avoid taking direct damage, and when he does inevitably take more damage than a warrior would using the Force to heal it. I believe the Marauder and Darth Maul classes will approach combat from very different mindsets and will have a VERY different feel to them in actual game play.

Archer, Nice Post.  One thing I was thinking about when I was reading this thread is that Ohlen has stated that they feel a big group of people fighting a single mob doesn't feel very heroic.  I read that as less huge boss type fights and more mobs running around shooting at you type fights where the group will have to respond to more than a single threat.  The E3 Multi player demo is a good example.  Yeah, there were a few more deadly mobs that the tank had to grab the agro on, but the rest of the guys running around basically got shanked by the Jedi running around and the smuggler taking pot shots behind cover.  You did not see the tank pulling all of the mobs, he took the breech droid and let the rest of the group burn down the adds.  when the LT. with the vibro sword came in they made specific mention of the Jedi taking him as an off tank, even though his role was primarily damage in the fight.   The way I see it, a SW will be hacking away at mobs.  Sure us Juggernauts might be the MT's but the marauder will be in the thick of the fight, OT'ing as needed, taking a few hits as well as dishing it out.

Exactly my thoughts Baxtoom... the Marauder is definitely a more damage focused AC, no question about it, but it still comes from a "tankish" base, and just because it's taking names on the battlefield it doesn't mean it can't also still take a hit too.