Darth Hater

Quote from Froststab

Quote from entropic
Everything in the dialogue fits with the events pre-KOTOR: Revan was a Jedi then a Sith then he was Reborn after his "death" at the hands of Malak. The underlined sections definitely show that the complex was completed prior  to KOTOR. Nothing in the trailer, except the looming shadow at the end (which probably was just mocked up for the trailer), suggests that Revan is alive in any form during TOR.

So what have I missed that makes you all so certain he is?

Well for starters you missed the PC dialogue that says something like:

"What do you mean reborn?, what was Revan's final fate?" - that seems like they are making it somewhat of a mystery, why create a mystery when its supposebly obvious.

Quote from xeridae
I'm aware I'm just stating the number one reason why he isn't the emperor and never will be. He is too pivotal to the story to belong to either faction.

I disagree, I dont think its a reason at all. As far as the story is concerned Revan was a Jedi and loyal to the Republic and an enemy to the Sith, I don't see why Sith would be surprised or upset if he wasn't on their side since its obvious he wouldn't be - besides they have the Emperor as their leader, to our knowledge the Republic have nobody of equivilent stature.

I actually think the Emperor has taken over Revan's body, the Emperor is human so it could be Revan and if Revan is walking around he isn't wearing his mask since its in his facility. Also the fact that the Emperor knows about a 300 year old secret facility of Revan's seems odd, perhaps he got access to that knowledge after taking over his body - more odd is the fact the Emperor is human.

You make some good points no doubt. Wish this game wasn't so far away..

There are a few options here.  The first and the lamest, would be cloning, the weakest plot device in all of Star Wars.  Second, would be force ghost, stomachable, but I'm pretty sure I wouldn't want to hear his voice.  Maybe he just kind of guides you around to discover some stuff in his tomb.  Third, and for me worst, would be he was reborn to the dark side.  It's possible, but I would like to think the Revan has freed himself from the shackles of either light or dark side morally.  Fourth, he's dead, yeah!  Let a 300 year old human rest in peace, we discover what happened to him after he left and how he royally F'd up the Emperor's plans.  Fifth, the shadow is the Exile's, weak but just as possible as Revan being reborn.  Sixth, Revan has become a living manifestation of the Force, his essence has become reborn into a new character.  I could actually deal with this if it meant that original Revan was indeed dead.  It would allow for someone else to voice him, and it would allow him to have a major impact on the events of this game.  However, it would take a REALLY well developed story with him playing a major role in it to properly explain this one.  Seventh, Revan now works for the Hutts, or any other option that I can't even imagine but when Bioware reveals it I'll go !!!@#$#@$!!! Didn't see that one coming.

The only concern I have right now is that so far, Revan's story has only been shown as being part of the dark side story quest.  Could this mean that only the Dark side gets to find out more about his fate?  Could this be the reason why most people at Bioware like the dark side stories better?  I certainly hope not.  It would be a slight to all the light side Revan fans out there, and it would be cutting half the population out from the most influential man in the last 300 years.  Comments?

Let's consider Revan's path. Some of you may not have read the KOTOR Comics, I have, but I must admit, Revan doesn't play much of a part in them. Malak does.

Revan was a Jedi who went to war against the council's wish, and kicked Mandalorian ass, sending them back to their holes. Something may have been up with him at this point, maybe he was slipping to the dark side already, certainly the destruction of Malachor V was a big deal.

He then pursued information or a trail into the unknown regions, where he met our Sith Empire. He then returned, having fallen to the dark side, and created a new Sith Empire, separate to ours. He found the Star Forge and was all set to destroy the Republic. We know from Master Gnost-Dural's investigation that Revan and Malak both got too big for their britches, they went too far and had visions of their own Empire. They used the Star Forge for themselves. THIS is what set the Emperor back 300 years, they got greedy and stuffed up his plans by using the Star Forge for themselves, creating their own Empire and drawing the Republic's attention. But during this...

Revan was redeemed. Mostly due to a betrayal by Malak, but still it happened. So Revan found the light side again (pansy), and led the efforts to destroy the Star Forge. But Revan had already betrayed the Emperor, so I don't think we need to focus on Light Side vs Dark Side.

Revan means a lot to both factions.

To the Empire he was a traitor, a very skilled individual, and more knowledgable about the Republic of the time than almost anyone in the Sith Empire. Who knows what else he created while he was either Sith or Jedi, but to the Sith, he's no hero, he's more like a pirate that may have buried some treasure somewhere, some facility. But he doesn't really have any information or lessons to teach the Sith other than to keep a close eye on agents and apprentices lest they betray you.

To the Republic he was a hero, undoubtedly. Sure, he fell, and killed a lot of people, but he did more good than bad. Not saying that justifies any of his actions, but put simply, that's what he did. Sounds like a certain Skywalker or two... or three. Most importantly to the Republic, Revan held information, especially about the Sith Empire hidden out among the Unknown Regions. He chose not to share that with anybody, before journeying out there the first time, and then again the second time after his redemption. What did he know? Does he know something that the Republic or Jedi really need to know about now?

So, in short, for the Sith he represents weapons, a path to power, and for the Republic he represents knowledge and dare I say it, story.

In the game, for all we know the Republic will have a similar flashpoint set in another tomb, or even the same one. In my opinion, Revan is not, nor should he be, the Emperor. The Emperor existed before Revan came along, and the Emperor turned Revan to the Dark Side, then Revan stabbed him in the back and turned back to the Light. If anything, Revan should be a massive enemy to the Emperor. But I don't think Revan should be alive. Maybe there should be a tribe, clan or faction that he established and left behind to fight the Empire from close/within the Empire, but he should be gone, and leave a legacy for both the Empire and Republic.

In KOTOR2 it's revealed/retconned that Revan was destroying the Republic mostly to make it a more effective weapon against the True Sith.  Attacking only in ways and places that wouldn't screw up the infrastructure for future war.  (Malak, of course, was an empty-headed warrior with no such concerns.)  This is a sort of path the dark side Republic-faction Jedi might take in the game.  When he remembered all this again, he must have switched to Plan B (and yes, this may include an anti-Emperor faction within the Sith).

To the Sith, though, however impartially he aligned with their current incarnation he's still a mighty Sith figure of legend.  Remember the words of Baras.

On a somewhat different point, what are the odds we'll discover that the Exile had kids with Atton out there?

Quote from CornbreadChrist
The only concern I have right now is that so far, Revan's story has only been shown as being part of the dark side story quest.  Could this mean that only the Dark side gets to find out more about his fate?  Could this be the reason why most people at Bioware like the dark side stories better?  I certainly hope not.  It would be a slight to all the light side Revan fans out there, and it would be cutting half the population out from the most influential man in the last 300 years.  Comments?

Do you honestly think that the Republic won't have story content regarding Revan? If you do you are very naive.

Quote from flem1
In KOTOR2 it's revealed/retconned that Revan was destroying the Republic mostly to make it a more effective weapon against the True Sith.  Attacking only in ways and places that wouldn't screw up the infrastructure for future war.  [...]

I remember that point, but that was an interpretation. Of course the Republic and the Order would like to think that he wasn't really evil, he was just trying to prepare them. It could also be argued that he wanted to save the infrastructure for their own Sith Empire once they had defeated the Republic.

In other words, if I was conquering Mon Calamari, my first act would not be to blow the bowels out of the Shipyards, I'd rather save them for myself to build more ships once I had conquered the planet. Sure, it didn't work out so well for the One Sith Empire circa 137 ABY, but still... the idea is sound.

It was Kreia's interpretation though, as well as Disciple's.  She wasn't exactly with the True Sith Empire, but she certainly had no love for the Republic either.

Yeah, I'm pretty sure it's understood that Revan's big plan was to oppose the "true" Sith Empire with his own, more or less.  Revan and Malak "failed" the Sith Emperor in that they ended up betraying everything in sight:  first Revan turns on the Emperor and then Malak turns on Revan.  The eternal theme of the Sith is that for all their power they always cripple each other.

Whatever story they might present, I'll better be good. The bigger the character the bigger the effect of the story.

I personally would prefer a dead Revan and a new figure which is walking in his path. (the shadow u see in the picture just might be it) So instead of finding all your answers in the tomb, you'll find clues leading step by step to this new character which is bound somehow with the past. Someone which never unfolded his true powers, fearing light/dark side would start trying to pull him/her to either side and stop that characters progress. Later on the character will recognize that he has to take sides because (I know it's old) from great power comes great responsibility. Both side will of course try to draw (as expected) that character to either side which will leave both factions enough room to create quests over quests around it. After that the character would recognize something unexpected by both factions... not joining one side but creating something new (just like revan) and the target to "delete" current factions to form something new "united"....  forcing both faction  to work together because of this bigger "threat". Something like Fatal Alliance just that the clone would actually know what her robots are doing and use them.  On this hole journey finally after all these years the truth about revan will be unfold and most of it's mystery uncovered.

Honestly, a central character like that should really be the PC.

Since that won't happen, it makes more sense for it to be someone many players consider part of themselves anyway -- their former PC, Revan.  Plus, you can already imagine the lulz if/when Satele meets "granddad".

I doubt the entire game plot will ever turn to "factions joining up to battle a third threat" though.  That would be cheesy.

Quote from flem1
I doubt the entire game plot will ever turn to "factions joining up to battle a third threat" though.  That would be cheesy.

Hmm I never thought about that but now that I do its kind of unavoidable in the MMO format, when Bioware creates a raid dungeon they really have to make it for both factions unless they want to double their workload and create one for each, it seems likely that they will have both factions fighting common foes at some point.

Quote from Siros
Whatever story they might present, I'll better be good. The bigger the character the bigger the effect of the story.

I personally would prefer a dead Revan and a new figure which is walking in his path. (the shadow u see in the picture just might be it) So instead of finding all your answers in the tomb, you'll find clues leading step by step to this new character which is bound somehow with the past. Someone which never unfolded his true powers, fearing light/dark side would start trying to pull him/her to either side and stop that characters progress. Later on the character will recognize that he has to take sides because (I know it's old) from great power comes great responsibility. Both side will of course try to draw (as expected) that character to either side which will leave both factions enough room to create quests over quests around it. After that the character would recognize something unexpected by both factions... not joining one side but creating something new (just like revan) and the target to "delete" current factions to form something new "united"....  forcing both faction  to work together because of this bigger "threat". Something like Fatal Alliance just that the clone would actually know what her robots are doing and use them.  On this hole journey finally after all these years the truth about revan will be unfold and most of it's mystery uncovered.

Maybe Revan is dead and the Exile is following in his path now dun dun dun.

Here is the transcript from the movie clip:

NPC General:
The Emperor has ordered me to unravel a great enigma in this sector, a complex constructed centuries ago, by a Sith named Darth Revan.
Upon it's completion, Revan sealed a mysterious cargo inside; I've discovered that the complex's defenses draw power from reactors across this sector.
The owners of these reactors are completely unaware.
Unfortunately, they're also our enemies.
Republic special forces. Criminal cartels, and mercenary armies.
They'll never willingly shut down their reactors.

Imperial Agent: (Dialog choice: Then we'll do it the hard way)
Once I put my mind to something, nothing in the galaxy can stop me!

(Combat here)

Sith Warrior:
We dealt with the reactors, General. The defenses on Revan's complex are powerless.

NPC General:
After all these years, we'll finally learn what secrets Revan left behind.
Since you made this possible, it's only fair you be the first to explore Revan's complex.
Before his rebirth, he was both Sith and Jedi.

Unknown Party member:
What do you mean reborn? What was Revan's final fate?

HK47:
Interjection: Silence, meatbags!

Quote from Snodge
Here is the transcript from the movie clip:

NPC General:
The Emperor has ordered me to unravel a great enigma in this sector, a complex constructed centuries ago, by a Sith named Darth Revan.
Upon it's completion, Revan sealed a mysterious cargo inside; I've discovered that the complex's defenses draw power from reactors across this sector.
The owners of these reactors are completely unaware.
Unfortunately, they're also our enemies.
Republic special forces. Criminal cartels, and mercenary armies.
They'll never willingly shut down their reactors.

Imperial Agent: (Dialog choice: Then we'll do it the hard way)
Once I put my mind to something, nothing in the galaxy can stop me!

(Combat here)

Sith Warrior:
We dealt with the reactors, General. The defenses on Revan's complex are powerless.

NPC General:
After all these years, we'll finally learn what secrets Revan left behind.
Since you made this possible, it's only fair you be the first to explore Revan's complex.
Before his rebirth, he was both Sith and Jedi.

Unknown Party member:
What do you mean reborn? What was Revan's final fate?

HK47:
Interjection: Silence, meatbags!

Isn't it amazing how the NPC General's voice sounds almost exactly like David Warner who played Ed Dillinger/Master Control Program in TRON & the BIG BAD in that old Terry Gilliam movie TIME BANDITS. The guy has done alot of voice over work for Batman the Animated Series & other stuff & has a really distinctive British voice. I really think this NPC Imperial general is David Warner.

Quote from xeridae

Maybe Revan is dead and the Exile is following in his path now dun dun dun.

I was just listening to one of the Q&A from Pax where it was mentioned that Revan and the Exile are open plots which they might have to fill.

Do you guys think they will "end" both of them?
Will there be two big plots or like Xeridae wrote more or less on finished and another one continued?

Since we have two stories would it make sense that each faction get one?